Martin Stephens date of birth.

[darrenburnfan]

I don't know who provided the information on the IMDb that Martin Stephens was born in January, 1948, but it must be wrong. His mother Hilda, who sounds like a very elderly lady now, was on BBC Radio Five Live on June 27th, 2010, speaking from her home in Barnet, north London, about Martin and his films and she said he will be 61 in July (this month in 2010). So he was actually born in July, 1949. And if one person would know, it would be his mother.



She had some interesting anecdotes about Martin's film career, which began in 1957 with his first film "Another Time, Another Place", which took a very long time to film because all the cast and crew came down with the 1957 strain of Asian flu and Martin had to be released from the film early, so that he could go to India to film "Harry Black" with Stewart Granger for 20th Century-Fox.



I've tried to get the IMDb to change an actor's wrong date of birth to the correct one in the past and couldn't get them to do it. Once a date goes on there, even if it's wrong, it says on there.

[Arfur Teacake]

Yes the IMDB want links for stuff like that which can lead into a chicken and egg situation and quite infuriating.

Obviously they are just trying to protect it against a Wikipedia style situation where nutters and those with axes to grind keep altering the information.



But that does not help you now when you know something is wrong, so maybe IMDB ace contributor Steve Crook could sort something?

[Steve Crook]

name='darrenburnfan' date='02 July 2010 - 07:37 PM' timestamp='1278095828' post='446876']

I don't know who provided the information on the IMDb that Martin Stephens was born in January, 1948, but it must be wrong. His mother Hilda, who sounds like a very elderly lady now, was on BBC Radio Five Live on June 27th, 2010, speaking from her home in Barnet, north London, about Martin and his films and she said he will be 61 in July (this month in 2010). So he was actually born in July, 1949. And if one person would know, it would be his mother.



She had some interesting anecdotes about Martin's film career, which began in 1957 with his first film "Another Time, Another Place", which took a very long time to film because all the cast and crew came down with the 1957 strain of Asian flu and Martin had to be released from the film early, so that he could go to India to film "Harry Black" with Stewart Granger for 20th Century-Fox.



I've tried to get the IMDb to change an actor's wrong date of birth to the correct one in the past and couldn't get them to do it. Once a date goes on there, even if it's wrong, it says on there.

Not if you can provide proof. Dates of birth, and death, can be corrected if they can be shown to be wrong.



But his mother saying that he was of a certain age on the radio isn't really proof. Mother's can be mistaken. They can also deliberately give the wrong date of birth or the wrong age if a particular actor tells their mother that they want to appear younger (or older) than they are. It happens, some actors lie about their age and they get their mother's to support that lie.



Get a copy of his birth certificate and send that to the IMDb



Steve

[darrenburnfan]

Well, I won't go to that much trouble, Steve. Birth certificates cost about £12 online and I'm not prepared to go that far. Now I've reported this, maybe someone will do some investigative research. The admins of the MovieKids website are also looking into it, as they've got one date in January, 1948 as his birth date and the IMDb has got a different date in January, 1948. Now his mother says he was actually born in July, 1949. His birth name, by the way, was Martin Angel Keller. You used to be able to check these dates on the ancestry.co.uk website for free, but you can't do that any more. However, if anyone on here is a paid up member of ancestry.co.uk and they could perhaps look on the birth register for the July, August, September quarter of 1949 and they find his birth listed there, I would be much obliged if you would let us know. Meanwhile, I will have a look in my old film annuals and magazines to see if there's any info on his date of birth in those.

[Fellwanderer]

name='darrenburnfan' date='03 July 2010 - 06:17 AM' timestamp='1278134269' post='446996']

Well, I won't go to that much trouble, Steve. Birth certificates cost about £12 online and I'm not prepared to go that far. Now I've reported this, maybe someone will do some investigative research. The admins of the MovieKids website are also looking into it, as they've got one date in January, 1948 as his birth date and the IMDb has got a different date in January, 1948. Now his mother says he was actually born in July, 1949. His birth name, by the way, was Martin Angel Keller. You used to be able to check these dates on the ancestry.co.uk website for free, but you can't do that any more. However, if anyone on here is a paid up member of ancestry.co.uk and they could perhaps look on the birth register for the July, August, September quarter of 1949 and they find his birth listed there, I would be much obliged if you would let us know. Meanwhile, I will have a look in my old film annuals and magazines to see if there's any info on his date of birth in those.

Ancestry.co.uk shows the only Martin A Keller born in the UK between 1916 and 2005 to have been registered in the March quarter of 1948 - which would mean January 1948 rather than July 1949.

[darrenburnfan]

name='Fellwanderer' date='03 July 2010 - 06:58 AM' timestamp='1278136737' post='447003']

Ancestry.co.uk shows the only Martin A Keller born in the UK between 1916 and 2005 to have been registered in the March quarter of 1948 - which would mean January 1948 rather than July 1949.

Thanks, Fellwanderer. It seems strange, as surely his own mother would know how old he is. So in that case, why say July, 1949, instead of January, 1948? Of course, ancestry.co.uk does have a lot of entries that are missing. It lists my birth, for instance, in the April, May, June quarter of 1947, but not my sister in the October, November, December quarter of 1949. Also, although my late mother's birth in 1909 is listed, some of her brothers and sisters entries are missing.

[Maurice]

Ancestry.co.uk provides date of birth of deceased person, but not date of death.

Subscribers would have to purchase death certificate.



To find date of birth for living person, subscribers need to purchase birth certificate.



As darrenburnfan points out, certificates are too expensive.

[CaptainWaggett]

Why too expensive? It's not free for a register office to create a birth certficate. £10 seems fairly reasonable to me (or £7 if you do some basic research first). And birth certificates are extremely useful for identity theft, as anyone who has read Day of the Jackal knows - not every country allows you to buy someone else's birth certificate,



http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

[darrenburnfan]

The main problem is that to obtain a copy of a birth certificate online, you need to the exact date of the birth. In cases like Martin Stephens, where different websites give different dates and his mother another date and year entirely, that would not be possible. Although if you lived in or near Barnet, you could enquire at the local registry office there and they would have a look for you if they felt in a helpful mood.

[CaptainWaggett]

name='darrenburnfan' date='03 July 2010 - 08:10 AM' timestamp='1278141025' post='447016']

The main problem is that to obtain a copy of a birth certificate online, you need to the exact date of the birth. In cases like Martin Stephens, where different websites give different dates and his mother another date and year entirely, that would not be possible. Although if you lived in or near Barnet, you could enquire at the local registry office there and they would have a look for you if they felt in a helpful mood.

No you don't. In fact, it's to get the date of birth that you apply for the birth certificate. You need to be able to identify the record so there isn't any confusion. If you check Ancestry or FreeBMD or whatever, you can find the quarter of registration and the volume/page number of the register. Then you can apply to the General Register Office for a certificate for £7.00. Fell has already given all the information you need to get the certificate (though if you had the volume number/page you'd save £3)



Most libraries subscribe to Ancestry so you can check it there. Or FreeBMD but that's not complete - http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

[darrenburnfan]

You know, I think we all may be barking up the wrong tree here. Supposing Martin’s birth name wasn’t Martin Angel Keller, but Martin Stephens. I recall a neighbour of mine, Gordon Lindop, who passed away some years ago, once telling me that in 1962, after seeing The Innocents, he found himself in Barnet, Hertfordshire, on business and went to look up Martin, having discovered his address. Martin and his mother made him very welcome and he even had tea with them. Then, in 1985, Gordon asked to use my phone (his being out of order) to phone up Mrs Stephens in Barnet. So he rang the number and when she answered, he said: “Hello, Mrs Stephens, it’s Gordon here, Gordon Lindop.� Note that he didn’t address her as Mrs Keller, so where does the name Keller come from with regard to Martin Stephens birth name? Surely if Hilda Stephens was his mother, he was born Martin Stephens.



Also, according to the BT Online directory, there is an H Stephens living in Barnet in the phone book, but no H Keller.

[CaptainWaggett]

name='darrenburnfan' date='03 July 2010 - 07:48 AM' timestamp='1278139726' post='447009']

Thanks, Fellwanderer. It seems strange, as surely his own mother would know how old he is. So in that case, why say July, 1949, instead of January, 1948? Of course, ancestry.co.uk does have a lot of entries that are missing. It lists my birth, for instance, in the April, May, June quarter of 1947, but not my sister in the October, November, December quarter of 1949. Also, although my late mother's birth in 1909 is listed, some of her brothers and sisters entries are missing.

One point of clarification - the register date isn't the date of birth but the date of registration which can be up to six weeks after the birth. So, for example, I was born in December and my birth was registered the following year. Back around 1910 I would imagine plenty of people just didn't get round to it - the most famous unregistered birth is that of Charlie Chaplin.



Re Stephens / Keller - you were the person who mentioned the name change. Where did you get the information?

[darrenburnfan]

name='CaptainWaggett' date='03 July 2010 - 02:04 PM' timestamp='1278162245' post='447126']Re Stephens / Keller - you were the person who mentioned the name change. Where did you get the information?

The supposed birth name Keller is on the Movie Kids website, although both they and the IMDb have different dates in January, 1948, for his birth.



http://sever2.tvepics.com/code/actor...p?actorid=2785

[Fellwanderer]

A lot of the Ancestry information comes from the FreeBMD site and it depends whether or not a particular quarter has been transcribed yet [it is all done by volunteers which is why it is FREE] - that can explain missing information even when you are certain it exists, such as known relatives.



As it happens, there are 2 Martin Stephens registered as born in the September quarter of 1949. Both are Martin A and both within a reasonably short distance of Southgate so not much nearer to finding a solution. The more likely is the one registered in Wood Green - the registration district is 5f and the page no. 562.



Not a great deal of help as even the birth certificate would only be circumstantial evidence. You'd really need to ask him where his birth was registered - which would then remove the need for the certificate as one might reasonably expect him to also know his own date of birth!

[Steve Crook]

name='darrenburnfan' date='03 July 2010 - 06:17 AM' timestamp='1278134269' post='446996']

Well, I won't go to that much trouble, Steve. Birth certificates cost about £12 online and I'm not prepared to go that far. Now I've reported this, maybe someone will do some investigative research. The admins of the MovieKids website are also looking into it, as they've got one date in January, 1948 as his birth date and the IMDb has got a different date in January, 1948. Now his mother says he was actually born in July, 1949. His birth name, by the way, was Martin Angel Keller. You used to be able to check these dates on the ancestry.co.uk website for free, but you can't do that any more. However, if anyone on here is a paid up member of ancestry.co.uk and they could perhaps look on the birth register for the July, August, September quarter of 1949 and they find his birth listed there, I would be much obliged if you would let us know. Meanwhile, I will have a look in my old film annuals and magazines to see if there's any info on his date of birth in those.

But old film annuals are no more reliable than his mother or any other sources like other web sites

They can all make mistakes



The birth certificate is the only real proof. And if you're not prepared to put in the research and pay for the certificate then it can't really matter that much so you shouldn't really complain about different sites having different dates for him.



Steve

[Steve Crook]

name='Fellwanderer' date='03 July 2010 - 05:32 PM' timestamp='1278174729' post='447197']

Not a great deal of help as even the birth certificate would only be circumstantial evidence. You'd really need to ask him were his birth was registered - which would then remove the need for the certificate as one might reasonably expect him to also know his own date of birth!

But people, especially actors, can tell untruths about their dates of birth. It would be better to ask this actor his parents' names. You could then find the correct birth certificate



Steve

[Geoffers]

name='Steve Crook' date='03 July 2010 - 05:36 PM' timestamp='1278174991' post='447201']

But people, especially actors, can tell untruths about their dates of birth. It would be better to ask this actor his parents' names. You could then find the correct birth certificate



Steve

The very wise Steve has made some good points in this thread, as have some others. However, despite some evidence that January 1948 is correct, on this occasion I'm siding with his mother.



The reason I'm doing so is that the British Film & TV Year book (1959/60) has him as born in London on 19th July 1949. Whereas, as has been pointed out, books can also make mistakes, I believe much of the data in these year books was provided by agents and those listed themselves. It seems somewhat unlikely that making him 6 or 7 months younger at that stage of his career would have been an advantage or a deliberate ploy.



I will put this to IMDb and see if they are prepared to accept it. It might also depend on the source of the existing data, of course!

[Steve Crook]

name='Geoffers' date='04 July 2010 - 06:58 PM' timestamp='1278266326' post='447717']

I will put this to IMDb and see if they are prepared to accept it. It might also depend on the source of the existing data, of course!

It does. It also depends on the number of contributions that the person submitting the change has made, and the accuracy of those submissions.



On the IMDb the reputation of the person submitting the information counts for a lot.



Steve

[darrenburnfan]

If July 19th, 1949, is indeed correct, then the person who uploaded his "date of birth" to the IMDb originally made him appear to be nineteen months older than he actually was. Their date would make him out to be 13 when he started filming The Innocents in February, 1961. But I think he looks much younger than that, say eleven years old.