Loss of Faith

[Fellwanderer]

Not quite sure where this should be but here goes.


The Fan Letters thread got me thinking about this - what might make one lose faith with a favourite actor or actress or should the performance be the only measure?

Personally, I'd find it extremely difficult to retain any loyalty/enthusiasm for someone if they were known to be very dismissive of ordinary fans. There are some other things that would sway my loyalty but I'll see what others think first.

[Rowdon]

I find this is true of singers/pop stars too. If I read an interview where they say something really (in my opinion) stupid, I just can't help sneering when I hear them. I don't mean dumb, I mean nastily stupid. Adele is a recent 'offender', Morrissey a repeat offender ... I even get put off people by videos they make sometimes. Oh, I'm so sensitive.

I think I maybe cut more slack for actors because of the nature of their art: as the title suggests, they are acting, so if they turn out to have a different 'reality', then I should have expected that. Singers, on the other hand, generally produce their own art, so I don't separate them from it so much, perhaps, Or maybe Morrissey just annoys me.

[Timmy_Lea]

Their performances are all that matters.

[Elaine]

Performance is important, but if they are dick heads, and nasty with it, that puts me right off them.

[ADMIRAL]

Whether actors or musicians - in fact anyone who has developed a successful career in the performing arts based on wide media exposure, has at the very least, in my opinion, a moral obligation to reciprocate (how can be discussed separately) the support they receive from dedicated fans and the wider public, without whose positive reaction the individual concerned would be marginalised. Kevin Spacey, for example, was quoted a few years ago as saying that he owed his fans nothing except a good next performance: that attitude just reeks of arrogance to me and is simply not acceptable. When will these people realise that without a positive audience reaction they are nothing, and to be dismissive of the support they receive simply won't do.

[didi-5]

I think that it does matter what people are really like - but it shouldn't detract from their performances. I might still admire someone even if I totally disagree with their politics for example because that is irrelevant to their talent as performers. It's a difficult one. People are people and being in the public eye doesn't suddenly make you a saint.

[Fellwanderer]

Whether actors or musicians - in fact anyone who has developed a successful career in the performing arts based on wide media exposure, has at the very least, in my opinion, a moral obligation to reciprocate (how can be discussed separately) the support they receive from dedicated fans and the wider public, without whose positive reaction the individual concerned would be marginalised. Kevin Spacey, for example, was quoted a few years ago as saying that he owed his fans nothing except a good next performance: that attitude just reeks of arrogance to me and is simply not acceptable. When will these people realise that without a positive audience reaction they are nothing, and to be dismissive of the support they receive simply won't do.

Thanks - I thought it was Kevin Spacey who'd made that comment but couldn't be sure.

In a way he is right in the same way that if one employs an accountant or plumber one expects them to do their best for their pay. The difference as I see it is that fans, for want of a better word, of those in the performing arts (and sport) invest not only their time and money but also a lot of emotional capital - they (hopefully) get a tremendous amount of pleasure out of watching a performance.

[Timmy_Lea]

Thanks - I thought it was Kevin Spacey who'd made that comment but couldn't be sure.

In a way he is right in the same way that if one employs an accountant or plumber one expects them to do their best for their pay. The difference as I see it is that fans, for want of a better word, of those in the performing arts (and sport) invest not only their time and money but also a lot of emotional capital - they (hopefully) get a tremendous amount of pleasure out of watching a performance.

That's right, a performance. The actor owes them nothing more than that.

[Fellwanderer]

That's right, a performance. The actor owes them nothing more than that.

I wonder how many actors would appreciate a stony silence at the end of a performance - after all, the audience has paid their money so owes nothing more in the way of applause.

[Timmy_Lea]

I wonder how many actors would appreciate a stony silence at the end of a performance - after all, the audience has paid their money so owes nothing more in the way of applause.

True. If you are unhappy with a performance don't applause. You are not obligated to do so.

[CaptainWaggett]

Kevin Spacey spends a fair amount of time signing autographs after demanding stage performances which not all actors do. He's also perfectly friendly to people who approach him (not something I've ever done but he's often in the audience at the Old Vic so I've seen fans talking to him).

[cully]

Not quite sure where this should be but here goes.


The Fan Letters thread got me thinking about this - what might make one lose faith with a favourite actor or actress or should the performance be the only measure?

Personally, I'd find it extremely difficult to retain any loyalty/enthusiasm for someone if they were known to be very dismissive of ordinary fans. There are some other things that would sway my loyalty but I'll see what others think first.

Fell, I can't recall where the quote comes from but somebody once said that if we only read the books, listened to the music, admired the paintings etc etc of people we would actually like in real life, we would end up not reading many books, listening to much music etc etc....

[Brett Sinclair]

Whether actors or musicians - in fact anyone who has developed a successful career in the performing arts based on wide media exposure, has at the very least, in my opinion, a moral obligation to reciprocate (how can be discussed separately) the support they receive from dedicated fans and the wider public, without whose positive reaction the individual concerned would be marginalised. Kevin Spacey, for example, was quoted a few years ago as saying that he owed his fans nothing except a good next performance: that attitude just reeks of arrogance to me and is simply not acceptable. When will these people realise that without a positive audience reaction they are nothing, and to be dismissive of the support they receive simply won't do.

I would pretty much support ADMIRAL's sentiments and Elaine's (good choice of words ) and Fellwanderer's.

The way I look at it is this [a broad generalisation, I know, but bear with me] an employed plumber may earn between say £20 - £50k pa and when he finishes his day's jobs he goes home, has his dinner and then his time is his own until the next day. a CEO may earn between £200 - £800k (plus bonuses) but his/her working day may not end until they go to bed, probably some weekend work too, but good benefits. The Actor/Actress that has made it may earn £multi millions pa. But, and this is the crux, the 24hr media scrutiny, intrusive fans, anti social working hours etc....this is what they buy into when they start off on that career path. Now, how they choose to deal with it is up to them. I will gladly pay my plumber for a job well done, The CEO of BT gets my money whether I like it or not, and the actor/actress only gets my money if I like their product. It only makes good sense to be as nice and as kind as possible all the time or you are going to potentially lose revenue. Look at Mel Gibson. If you can't take the heat....

I know that is broad brush, but I expect actors to be polite at all times and adapt to the circumstances. Some are obviously better than others at doing this, but that's human nature.
I don't particularly like Russel Crowe as a celebrity, but he's put in some good performances over the years. Someone who I cannot warm to though is Meg Ryan, regardless of her screen performances I have not seen anything about her off-screen that is remotely endearing. As far as the OP is concerned I think I would need several instances of selfishness/bad behaviour/poor performance before throwing in the towel on someone that I had hitherto respected.

And if you think a little wider of the mark, do the same rules apply for footballers? We tend to villify players that don't hold up to our expectations off the pitch...makes me think actors have it too cushy sometimes.

[ADMIRAL]

I would pretty much support ADMIRAL's sentiments and Elaine's (good choice of words ) and Fellwanderer's.

The way I look at it is this [a broad generalisation, I know, but bear with me] an employed plumber may earn between say £20 - £50k pa and when he finishes his day's jobs he goes home, has his dinner and then his time is his own until the next day. a CEO may earn between £200 - £800k (plus bonuses) but his/her working day may not end until they go to bed, probably some weekend work too, but good benefits. The Actor/Actress that has made it may earn £multi millions pa. But, and this is the crux, the 24hr media scrutiny, intrusive fans, anti social working hours etc....this is what they buy into when they start off on that career path. Now, how they choose to deal with it is up to them. I will gladly pay my plumber for a job well done, The CEO of BT gets my money whether I like it or not, and the actor/actress only gets my money if I like their product. It only makes good sense to be as nice and as kind as possible all the time or you are going to potentially lose revenue. Look at Mel Gibson. If you can't take the heat....

I know that is broad brush, but I expect actors to be polite at all times and adapt to the circumstances. Some are obviously better than others at doing this, but that's human nature.
I don't particularly like Russel Crowe as a celebrity, but he's put in some good performances over the years. Someone who I cannot warm to though is Meg Ryan, regardless of her screen performances I have not seen anything about her off-screen that is remotely endearing. As far as the OP is concerned I think I would need several instances of selfishness/bad behaviour/poor performance before throwing in the towel on someone that I had hitherto respected.

And if you think a little wider of the mark, do the same rules apply for footballers? We tend to villify players that don't hold up to our expectations off the pitch...makes me think actors have it too cushy sometimes.

Brett Sinclair has articulated my argument far better than I could myself No celebrity - whether actor, musician or, as you say, footballer - is forced to pursue their chosen career which surely they take on knowing that success will bring in its wake an audience reaction. A tired expression, I know, but "it goes with the territory". If they can't handle that in a gracious and generous way, they should step away and do something else. But of course most of these culprits - and I'm sure we all have our shortlist of these - wouldn't dream of doing that because the income and perks are too good. As Fellwanderer has said here, folks invest emotional capital besides time and money, in their support of these successful individuals, and the least they should do to uphold a natural sense of courtesy and fair play, is to acknowledge this when, and however, they are approached. In the Fan Mail thread there were some marvellous illustrations, some hailing from 40 or 50 years ago, of stars responding to fans with obvious sincerity and gratitude. Perhaps a large part of the problem here is the (downward) cultural and behavioural shift that has taken place since then where so often kindness, decency and good manners are now often regarded as weakness.

[Timmy_Lea]

wouldn't dream of doing that because the income and perks are too good. .

Or they enjoy acting?!?
I really don't see why actors etc have to be so fawning to fans (especially the kind of obsessive fans nowadays!) & it doesn't bother me what they are like when off screen.

[Steve Crook]

Performance is important, but if they are dick heads, and nasty with it, that puts me right off them.

Yes, Ricky Gervaise might even write or perform something funny, or original (for once) but I still don't think that would make me like him

Steve

[CaptainWaggett]

I I don't particularly like Russel Crowe as a celebrity, but he's put in some good performances over the years. Someone who I cannot warm to though is Meg Ryan, regardless of her screen performances I have not seen anything about her off-screen that is remotely endearing.

I know nothing of Meg Ryan offscreen (what is unendearing about her?) but I've seen Russell Crowe on celeb duty, doing a Q and A and then signing autographs afterwards while his minders tried to hustle him off somewhere and I thought he gave excellent value - he listened carefully to questions, made sure the questioner was happy with the answer and was generally polite and entertaining. Obviously I have no idea what went on behind the scenes but he seemed very good to his fans which is what I require in a celeb.

[Robin Davies]

I agree with Kevin Spacey. An actor gets paid to act and his obligation ends there. If he's willing to do more (sign autographs, go to conventions etc) that is praiseworthy but not an obligation.
Let's not forget that some fans can be a total pain in the neck - writing weird letters, demanding autographs at inconvenient times, getting autographs purely to make a profit by selling them etc. After encountering a few of these "fans" it's hard to blame celebs for avoiding all of them.

[ADMIRAL]

I agree with Kevin Spacey. An actor gets paid to act and his obligation ends there. If he's willing to do more (sign autographs, go to conventions etc) that is praiseworthy but not an obligation.
Let's not forget that some fans can be a total pain in the neck - writing weird letters, demanding autographs at inconvenient times, getting autographs purely to make a profit by selling them etc. After encountering a few of these "fans" it's hard to blame celebs for avoiding all of them.

I agree - indeed, sympathise, regarding how appallingly some fans behave - sadly with the wheat you always get some chaff. The point remains, however, that without the genuine fans and the overall positive audience reaction Kevn Spacey et al wouldn't be where they are today. As was seen in the Fan Letters thread this week, 50 or 60 years ago most leading actors (agreed, not all) did have the courtesy to reply to fans letters and reasonable approaches made to them. Dare I suggest that the relationship betwen performer and audience would appear to have been, well, different, then? A different era with different attitudes and social conventions.

[batman]

An actor is paid to act, but sometimes their contracts require them to promote their films/TV shows/plays etc which often includes meeting their 'fans'. If that is the case I think they should at least try and be polite and respectful to interviewers and the 'fans' who want to meet them (provided that respect etc is mutual) and not behave like a miserable git or gittess (???). If they don't want to engage with that side of the job that's fine, but if that's the case they shouldn't sign the contract obliging them to do so.