batman

Bats.

I wish I had claws.

ShirlGirl

We are in agreement then. As you say, mental health patients rely on medication in order to function; they have to take their medication every day for the rest of their lives. Because..... drugs deal with symptoms, not causes.

However, if you read again what I posted, you will see that I didn't make any generalisation that "nobody needs pharmaceutical medication", nor did I say that lifestyle changes are a cure-all. (Sorry, but you have distorted my words - no offence intended.)

I was writing more or less with Heath Ledger's tragic situation in mind; it seems he was on several different prescription drugs for a variety of things, and the particular drug he was prescribed for insomnia has an absolutely diabolical reputation.

But I will make this generalisation: IMO today's society relies too readily on medication -- often very dangerous medication -- to actually fix all sorts of problems which could be dealt with in safer, healthier and more effective ways. (When I say all sorts of problems, I don't mean all problems.)

It is an established fact, not my personal opinion, that most health problems stem from bad diet and/or bad lifestyle choices.

batman

Sorry, but I don't agree that I have distorted your words.

Quote:
"Chances are, the cause relates to diet and lifestyle and a cure will require an holistic approach."
This is a massive generalisation and indicates that you feel drugs are not part of the cure. There are many diseases/illnesses which are not releated to diet and lifestyle. Diseases can be picked up from animals, water, various bacteria, other people. How would you explain the babies that are born with serious physical difficulties who need medication to survive. What part of their diet and lifestyle is at fault. Also, you don't actually explain what you mean by an holistic approach. In the field I work in a true holistic approach encompasses everything, including the possible use of medication. Your statement indicates to me that you do not believe medication has a place in your interpretation of holistic treatment.

Quote:
"We are led to believe that whatever the problem is, there's a pill for it -- then there's another pill to counteract the adverse side effects of the first pill."
Who is this we? In my experience, as both a health professional and a patient, I have never heard this advocated as a primary remedy. Drug companies may issue this in their propaganda, but most of the medics I know take no notice of drug company propaganda. If a private individual wishes to go down that route it is their choice as a consenting adult. To most health professionals drug companies are merely the source of a free lunch.

Holistic treatment to me means that a person's physical, mental, spiritual, emotional, sexual and environmental needs are included in their treatment plan. This may include psychotherapy, physiotherapy, counselling and if necessary medication. A disorder such as depression may be helped by a herbal remedy (ie St Johns Wort), however in serious clinical depression this has been shown to have a minimal effect, therefore pharmaceutical medication is required for the sufferer to have the best chance of recovery.

I would be interested to hear what you define as holistic care?

Bats.

I wish I had claws.

batman

So what we are talking about here is your own personal opinion, not researched and verified health information. Also, what are these safer, healthier and more effective ways of dealing with health problems?

Bats.

I wish I had claws.

Dame Starry

There are families in the UK who have lost a loved-one because somebody with mental health problems and not receiving/taking the correct medication has randomly murdered them.
My son cannot function at the moment without regular prescribed medication - we hope, temporarily.
There are people with such severe disorders (not all mental) who need prescribed medication to function normally on a day-to-day basis - thankfully, not always permanently.
Without it many are not only a danger to themselves, but also to others.

There is a place for holistic/alternative therapies - in tandem with conventional medicine.
My uncle is a homeopathic practitioner and when my aunt was dying of cancer, his remedies helped her with the side effects of her treatment.
All alternative therapies have limitations.

YDSL x.

batman

I agree with what you say Dame Starry, however I don't consider holistic treatment to be 'alternative'. I work within the NHS and all our treatment plans are based around the type of holistic model I described in my earlier post.

Bats.

I wish I had claws.

Dame Starry

Of course you're right, Bats.
When I thought about it after, holistic is normally referred to as an 'approach' to the treatment - it isn't a treatment in itself.
I think that's what you meant.

YDSL x.

David Brent

There were a handful of imbeciles parading outside the Screen Actors Guild Awards in LA yesterday, holding banners that proclaimed that Heath Ledger's death was divine retribution for him having played a gay man in the film 'Brokeback Mountain'.


Dave.

Steve Crook

Ah Americans, doncha luv em

Steve

batman

I wish someone would take divine retribution on them .... imbeciles is the right word for them Dave!

Bats.

I wish I had claws.

ShirlGirl

Quote:

Originally Posted by batman Quote: "Chances are, the cause relates to diet and lifestyle and a cure will require an holistic approach." This is a massive generalisation and indicates that you feel drugs are not part of the cure.

You are overlooking that I also said.... IMO today's society relies too readily on medication….. to actually fix all sorts of problems .....

"Chances are"... hmm... perhaps my choice of words was misleading there. “Chances are” to me means “quite likely” but not necessarily 100 percent definite. I meant, it's worth exploring. If it turns out to be the case, then surely that's preferable to doing nothing other than masking symptoms with drugs that could be doing more harm than good.

Quote:

There are many diseases/illnesses which are not related to diet and lifestyle. Diseases can be picked up from animals, water, various bacteria, other people.

I wouldn’t disagree with that.

Would you disagree that very often (i.e. not always) diseases are caused by lack of hygiene and therefore lifestyle?

Quote:

How would you explain the babies that are born with serious physical difficulties who need medication to survive.

I acknowledge that happens, of course!

Quote:

What part of their diet and lifestyle is at fault.

All too often (not always) it's the diet and lifestyle of the mother that results in a baby being born with serious problems. Smoking during pregnancy for example is nothing less than pre-natal child abuse and should be regarded as a criminal offence.

Quote:

Also, you don't actually explain what you mean by an holistic approach. In the field I work in a true holistic approach encompasses everything, including the possible use of medication. Your statement indicates to me that you do not believe medication has a place in your interpretation of holistic treatment.

The place medication has is to manage the symptoms. Thought we’d already agreed on that point.

Quote:

Quote: "We are led to believe that whatever the problem is, there's a pill for it -- then there's another pill to counteract the adverse side effects of the first pill." Who is this we?

“We” – the general public. It’s in our faces every day via the unrelenting advertising by the drug pushers i.e. pharmaceutical companies.

Quote:

In my experience, as both a health professional and a patient, I have never heard this advocated as a primary remedy. Drug companies may issue this in their propaganda, but most of the medics I know take no notice of drug company propaganda.

Wow, Batman, we must be on different planets! On my planet, doctors (with some exceptions, including my own gorgeous GP) are on auto-pilot with regard to issuing drug prescriptions.

Quote:

I would be interested to hear what you define as holistic care?

I’m not a health practitioner. It’s not something I would put my own interpretation on. I accept this following explanation as expressed in Wikipedia:

Holism refers to the idea that an entity is greater than the sum of its parts. In the case of health, the entity in question is the human body. Holistic concepts of health and fitness view achieving and maintaining good health as involving more than just taking care of all the various components that make up the physical body—attention must be paid to aspects such as emotional and spiritual well-being as well. The goal is a wellness that encompasses the entire person, rather than just the lack of physical pain or disease.
Holistic health is not itself a method of treatment, but instead an approach to how treatment should be applied. Traditional medical philosophy treats physical symptoms, using standardized methods such as the prescription of drugs or the undertaking of surgery, while the patient is only passively involved. Practices emphasizing holistic health, on the other hand believe that they are treating the whole person. Practitioners of holistic medicine believe that attitudes affect the present condition, and the patient may play an active role in the healing process.

batman

We seem to agree on many things ShirlGirl, so I think it best to leave it there.

Bats.

I wish I had claws.

David Brent

Wise choice Bats.

ShirlGirl's not only very feminine, intelligent and sexy she can also wave the whip around when she has a point to prove.

More, I say, more !!!!!!!

Love you Shirl.

Dave.

ShirlGirl

Agreed again! Ummm.... except..... I'd like to make a brief (?) reply to your previous post, then I'll leave it alone! (Promise!)

It’s both; I’ve taken on board the findings of research carried out by some highly qualified health professionals in America.

No single answer to that question – it depends on what the problem is. Just one quick example: A patient (someone I know) presents with chronic severe heartburn; diagnosis - oesophageal reflux disease; gastroenterologist prescribes lansoprazole – won’t cure, and has a long list of ghastly possible side-effects, but it will inhibit production of gastric acid. This means pop-a-pill-a-day every day for the rest of his life – patient is horrified and doesn’t want to do that, but cancer is likely to develop due to the acid causing cell changes in the oesophagus. He asks the specialist can he not just go on an alkaline diet. Specialist shakes his head emphatically, no, it has to be the drug…. “this will knock the acid production right out of you’’. “But how will my body absorb protein if gastric acid isn’t present to break it down?” “Don’t worry, it will –- partially.” Hmmm.

Patient complies – goes on the drug, no choice really. But he educates himself on the subject – (the key to taking control of your own body) – and learns which foods and drinks are his enemies and which are his friends; eventually, with the help of an holistic practitioner he works out a diet to change onto and stick with. He’s now drug-free and reflux-free as well. Not easy at first, he’s had to give up lots of things he loved, like spicy food (no more Indian take-away), but now it’s a breeze.


Now I'll shut-up! After all, this is a film forum -- ermm, sorry folks, won't do it again. (cough-splutter-cough)

orpheum

Since you appear to be so interested in medical issues why dont you find yourself a medical site where you can spout to your hearts content.Just to remind you this is a site devoted to BRITISH FILMS.So just drop it.

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