theuofc

Hello, AndrewLA,

Yes, The Singer Not the Song is a pleasure for me also although I'm always looking at the handsome fellow in the black leather outfit...Dirk Bogarde. Not a guilty bone in my body about it. Mills is a wonderful head of hair in that 1961 film. But 16 years later in The Human Factor (1987), he definitely wasn't bald, just a receding hairline and thin across the top. Maybe it was more noticeable because his hair was slicked down. I was struck by the difference having just seen Singer Not the Song several days before viewing The Human Factor. If you have time, do have a look at the film to see what you think. It's more likely my memory failing. Mills certainly looked very trim and fit in the film.

But hair full, thin, receding, or not, Mills always put in a very solid performance no matter what the film and in Hobson's Choice, he was superb.

Best,

Barbara

AndrewLA

Absolutely, Bogarde dominates the film, though Mills gives it a sense of reality, I think. What always struck me about THE SINGER NOT THE SONG is how English it is, not Mexican at all (including John Bentley's police chief, with an impeccable Chief Inspector accent that would have fit right into Scotland Yard). You could almost have told this story as a LORNA DOONE-type tale, with a new minister arrtiving on Exmoor and dealing with outlaws there. That's not meant to be condescending at all. This is a terrific movie, and I liked Bentley, too. The fact that it reveals its British roots, rather than achieving an authentic Mexican feel, makes it more individual and compelling -- comparable to a superior spaghetti western like ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST, which no one would mistake for an American movie.

I never understood why Roy Baker and Bogarde and Mills and all the critics were so down on SINGER. Maybe in Baker's case you can understand that he was bitter because its commercial failure began his decline as a feature director. Mills seems to have had a more humorous take on it all. Bogarde... when you read his interviews, you sense his frustration at his English movies in general, leading him to THE SERVANT and DEATH IN VENICE. He supposedly hated working with Mills, which Mills professed not to understand. In his book, I think Mills says they had never worked together before... but, of course, they had, in THE GENTLE GUNMAN. Mills says they were finally reconciled while Bogarde was dying.

HOBSON'S CHOICE -- another great Mills film, perhaps one of his last true character starring roles. And let's not forget Brenda de Banzie. How she could blaze so beautifully in this movie then slip into minor roles (like THE PINK PANTHER) within a few years is beyond me.

Rennie

Here they are...I hope.

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h...DUTF-8%26sa%3DG

They are.

theuofc

Hello, AndrewLA,

It's always fascinating to read your comments.

You're not alone in wondering what the real story was re: "Singer Not the Song." After 45 years, and many of the principals gone, we'll probably never really know what went on inside their heads and all the twists of it. Perhaps part of the problem is that Baker was "forced to do the film" and it was Dirk's last film under contract to Rank. He had been frustrated with the handling of the earlier "Angel Wore Red" and feared the same with "Singer."

In one of his autobiographies, Dirk wrote that he wanted to see the film done realistically, with Anacleto in jeans, driving a truck. Well, that was not going to fly, much to Bogarde's frustration given this was his last film with Rank. He and Ava Gardner had tried for realism in "The Angel Wore Red" (1960) and been similarly frustrated. The studio preferred Ava in designer gowns, incongruous for her role.

Baker had his own problems in lining up actors for the two main roles in "Singer". Dirk was on his wish list as the priest and Richard Burton, Richard Widmark and Sinatra as the bandit, who all turned him down knowing the film probably would not be released in the U.S. By the time Baker met with Dirk, it was set in concrete by studio heads that Dirk would play the bandit. Baker tried to get Paul Scofield as priest, but Earl St. John wanted John Mills. Dirk was dead set against Mills because he was too "old" and didn't fit the part in terms of playing opposite him as a pair and especially one with homosexual undertones. Dirk could not see himself in the role being in love with Mills, an attitude confirmed by Mills. In Dirk's own copy of the script, the italicized line to Mylene Demongeot is deleted: "because you see, I am fond of him myself."

Baker maintains that Bogarde said," I promise you, if Johnny plays the priest I will make life unbearable for everyone concerned." Bogarde never confirmed that comment. Yet, the atmosphere on set was very strained.

In his autobiography, Mills tells an incident that further stirred the pot: Mills maintains that Dirk overheard one of the chippies declare on set that "Of course it's Johnnie Mills who's going to walk off with this picture."

What finally boiled the pot is the following incident: John Mills, in an interview for John Coldstream's 2004 biography of Bogarde, confided that "There was a thing with Tony's son, on location. Glynis (Johns, mother of Gareth Forwood, son of Dirk's lifelong partner Tony Forwood) came to me and said,"...I hear he's drinking brandy and smoking...' I said, "It's not bad at all.' She said, "But is it happening.' I said, 'Well, he's having a nip at night for fun...' She said, "That's all I wanted to know. You've put my mind at rest.' She went straight and phoned Dirk up. And that really did it. Put the cat among the pigeons. It was very bad. He went right off me. It didn't come out in the open, but I know. For years he wouldn't speak to me," said Mills."

The details differ in Gareth Forwood's version to Coldstream about the Mills-Glynis Johns encounter. Mills had returned to London from location earlier than Dirk. Gareth reports, "He bumped into Glynis at Les Ambassadeurs and gave her the opinion that I was being badly brought up and that Dirk had an unhealthy effect on me. Mother wrote a panic-stricken letter to my father (Tony Forwood). Panic ensured all around. There were still several weeks to do at Pinewood. And Dirk refused to speak to John ever again." Not surprising; Bogarde would be the first to agree. If he felt wronged, he could definitely be off that person.

Yet, Bogarde could be a devoted friend or partner as he was to Forwood for 40+ years. When Bogarde's good friend Judy Garland stabbed him in the arm in a fit of disappointment when Bogarde could not linger longer with her one evening during the filming of "I Could Go On Singing," Bogarde forgave. And forgave, for years. Are we not such paradoxes.

In Mills' "Moving Memories" documentary, he says he wanted to clear the slate and called Bogarde up years later and chatted briefly with him, feeling better then about the whole thing.

Best,

Barbara

theuofc

Hello, Andrew,

About Roy Ward Baker: I would really like to hear your comments, or from anyone, about Baker's position on "Singer." This one is a real puzzle to me. Baker felt that the film ruined his career in an interview to the willing ear of Matthew Sweet. Yet the same year 1961 in which Baker made "Singer", he made "Flame in the Streets" with Mills about race relations. Perhaps both films caused trouble to Baker's career. Dunno.

The good thing is Baker did go on to other films, "Two Left Feet", etc. and to direct an ongoing list of successful TV series, one right after the other: among them, Gideon's Way (1965), The Saint (1966), Quatermass (1967), The Avengers (1968), Persuaders (1972), Danger UXB (1979), The Flames Trees of Thika (1981), and so forth up to 1992. I'm happy that Baker had a further 31 years of productive, hopefully financially rewarding work, after Singer Not the Song (1961). Yes, most of the success was on television. Was it a prestige thing with Baker?

Thanks,

Barbara

AndrewLA

Isn't that the truth.

Barbara, a brilliant job of pulling several threads together. I'd read some of this, but you summerized it all so well. It has the ring of truth to it, especially the Gareth story, but also Bogarde's feeling about his career and the age difference between himself and Mills. It's ironic to think that had Bogarde been commercially successful with his "international" movies -- LIBEL, THE ANGEL WORE RED, THE DOCTOR'S DILEMMA, SONG WITHOUT END -- he might very well have gone on to a much more conventional career. Their failures must have helped push him into Pinter-Losey-Visconti-Fassbinder territory.

As for the age thing, to me, Mills was sort of ageless from the late 40s to late 60s, but, of course, he wasn't, and you can see the lines on his face. In THE GENTLE GUNMAN, Mills was his older brother, and perhaps Bogarde just couldn't see them matched up as emotional equals. All the other actors on the list would still have been older than Bogarde but not by so many years. Even Richard Widmark (now there's an interesting choice, though I don't think he would have been right for either role) came to prominence roughly around the same time as Bogarde. Still, I suspect we'll never know the full truth. I remember seeing that long interview the BBC did with Bogarde in the early 80s (I think) and, sad to say, he came off as rather bitter about so many things.

I don't know much about THE ANGEL WORE RED, except that Dirk and Ava were close friends -- he seems to have responded to emotionally wounded women -- and that they, and the writer-director Nunnally Johnson, were all disappointed by its failure. Seems that everything went wrong, and Johnson decided on the spot to stop directing after the Italian producer Geoffredo Lombardo recut the movie without consulting him. Johnson ended up quitting Hollywood and living in London for several years.

As for Baker's career going off the rails, you're right -- it couldn't simply have been THE SINGER NOT THE SONG. He subsequently made THE FLAME IN THE STREETS (hey, Ladbroke Grove-Notting Hill, I used to live there!) and THE VALIANT (talky and flat and not very exciting) and TWO LEFT FEET (also weak, I thought), and none of them were successful. So you have to consider that. It's comparable to Michael Powell's career. People usually say that PEEPING TOM did him in. I don't think so. Look at the movies Powell did before and after PEEPING TOM -- all commercial failures (THE QUEEN'S GUARDS, HONEYMOON). So we're sometimes left with the uncomfortable fact that certain directors and writers and actors just can't make the transition to a new age of filmmaking. Look at Kenneth More, whom I absolutely love. We can only guess what might have happened if Baker had succeeded in making SATURDAY NIGHT AND SUNDAY MORNING and THE LONG AND THE SHORT AND THE TALL and THE GRASS IS GREENER (with Kenneth More, no less -- not Cary Grant, but he would have been wonderful). More of life's great "what-ifs!"

I have a real fondness for directors like Baker -- skilled craftsmen who got the job done expertly provided they were given a good cast and story -- and miss him today. His Hollywood movie INFERNO is excellent, a great Robert Ryan performance. Good for him that he had a strong enough character not to be too depressed by that huge change in his professional life and was able to begin again with Hammer and TV. It must have been tough. Not just forfeiting his prestige (which must have been very important to him), but also just losing the ability to work at the highest level with the best people. I think we'd all feel the same way if that happened to us. But he kept going -- and what a list of credits. He can really be proud of his life.

And now, to have us discussing THE SINGER NOT THE SONG as a good movie not a bad one... well, talk about the turning of the earth.

julian_craster

This is now replaced by another (less agressive, more attractive than Roger Moore) image.... I have now changed my sex

Julian

theuofc

Dear Julia,

You'll always be Julian to me.

Barbara

theuofc

Dear AndrewLA,

Thanks for the very kind words and also for the insights you always add to your messages, another pleasure in reading them. That's an excellent point that Bogarde would be even more sensitive to the age difference and reluctant about being Mills' amour after having played his younger brother.

Moreover, you're the first person to put forth a plausible case for Baker's bitterness at 'Singer' and his shift to television within years. I hadn't considered his losing the opportunity to work with the best people in the film world. It makes sense. Also a tremendous shift in the time allotted to a director, with tv shows being churned out weekly vs. a 3+ month film shoot. Being such a child of the era of television and cable HBO, etc. the chasm between the film and television worlds hasn't quite loomed as large to me as it would during Baker's days. U.S. directors like Sidney Lumet cut their teeth in New York by directing television dramas and moving on to superb films such as "12 Angry Men" and "The Pawnbroker." Lumet always speaks glowingly of his "invaluable experience" in that medium. So I needed Baker's perspective. Many thanks. I finally understand his point of view.

Best,

Barbara

AndrewLA

Barbara, I can't help being aware of this every time I watch an episode of, say, THE PERSUADERS or THE SAINT, and see someone like Roy Baker or Basil Dearden or Leslie Norman credited. If we wanted to be cruel, we could say their episodes sometimes have a quick and dirty look to them (I'd include THE MAN WHO HAUNTED HIMSELF, made by THE SAINT team, which I like, but it sure has a lot of zoom shots and an obviously fast shooting schedule), and represent a big comedown from their work in features.

Then again, all those shows are tremendous fun, and I get the feeling that Baker and the others often cut corners in places so that they could concentrate in other scenes on things like performance and the occasional elaborate sequence. I have the feeling that Tony Curtis, for example, did a lot of improvising on THE PERSUADERS, which might have played havoc with a shooting schedule if the director wasn't flexible and receptive enough to accomodate him, even if it meant shooting on the fly somewhere else (just guessing; I'd love to know more about that show, which should have run for years!).

If you compare a "typical" 60s episode of THE PERSUADERS or THE AVENGERS or GIDEON'S WAY with a US TV series around the same time (IRONSIDE?), I think the British shows often come off as better made, with more interesting location shooting. John Hough's episodes of THE AVENGERS always struck me as imaginative jobs of directing.

nellybly

I didn't think her accent was so heavy either. Her husband at the time, Oscar Holmolka, who was working for Hitchcock, had a somewhat strong accent himself and went on to a fairly successfull career in acting in English-language fare.

Because the story was a bit thin in spots maybe they should have had a backstory of them not long back from Vienna or Berlin (which would have been timely) to account for her not having her mother's accent instead. Usually children develop the accents of the country they live in unless the family only speaks a foreign language in the home (in which case it's usually both parents who speak a foreign tongue) and then they usually pick up the "non-family" accent at school.

My cousins, nephews, and niece, who all have British born mothers but American born fathers, were raised in the United States and have the regional accents of where they were raised (a couple of the cousins have strong Texas accents--when I get off the phone from them, my already twangy Midwest accent takes a dive South. LOL)

It was a wonderful treat
To hear the patter of horsey feet.

Thanks For The Buggyride recorded by Percival Mackey

nellybly

P.S. Not all my cousins have British mothers. The majority of the mothers are native Texans and Missourians, as are the fathers. Two of the British mothers were War Brides and one visited the U.S. and met my brother. Now she only gets to the U.K. to refresh her accent. She's from Manchester, the others were from Liverpool and Southhampton).

It was a wonderful treat
To hear the patter of horsey feet.

Thanks For The Buggyride recorded by Percival Mackey

AndrewLA

You don't have to have been born in the U.S. Within ten years of my moving here, my friends in London were "accusing" me of losing my English accent. Now they think I'm competely American. I don't agree at all. I think I'm very English (one person said I reminded him of George Sanders; at first, I was insulted, then I was pleased, now I'm not sure which). Nobody here mistakes me for an American. But obviously, something's going on. I suspect it has more to do with a way of speaking -- the phrases you use, the structure of sentences, etc. -- rather than the accent itself. Just ask an English person and an American for directions and you'll see what I mean.

Funny, this whole accent thing. My wife is German, and she speaks and writes excellent English. Her knowledge of English grammar puts me to shame. But she has an easier time understanding a movie set in rural America, complete with regional accents, than classical British actors enunciating clearly in a David Hare play. The reason? She learned her everyday English in the States. Whereas her sister, who learned in England, has a terrible time with westerns! Ah, well. It's all one great big wonderful world.

Steve Crook

The British usually give directions via the pubs
"Turn left at the White Swan, straight on past the King's Head and then right at the Fox & Grapes"

I have a German lady friend who's English grammar is much better than mine. I think it's because they pay so much attention to grammar in German with different endings for each tense & case. Ask most English speakers what a Dative case is and they wouldn't have a clue, even though they often use it. In English it's not really all that necessary because so many tenses and cases all use the same ending anyway.

But that's also why, although I have reasonable conversational German (if you ignore my bad grammar) I'm fairly hopeless when asked to write in German.

Steve

nellybly

My sister-in-law, from Manchester, still sounds British but has lost much of the "lilt" and her accent is somewhat flatter but she'll never be mistaken for an American here, except possibly as a New Englander. Maybe it's because I'm used to her. Her sister, OTOH, who came over about the same time, has completely lost her British (Mancunian) accent except for a word or two.

I notice, with my s-i-l and actors who aren't classically trained, just using a "cleared up" version of their normal accent (which would otherwise be unintelligible, even to their countrymen, who live in other regions) that there's a kind of "sing-song" quality, for lack of a better term (there probably is one but I just can't think of it). Lilt, which I used in reference to my s-i-l, may be that better term. The stresses are different and the voice goes up instead of down and vice versa.

I'm difficult to understand here in New Jersey with what they consider a Southern accent (it isn't). It's sort of Midwest rural (wasn't so much until I moved from California to a farming area in Missouri). My uncle, who firmly believes that New Jersey is somewhere in Wisconsin, would be absolutely unintelligable if he ever found his way here. He has a throughly Missouri country accent.

I got into a habit of saying "extree" instead of "extra" and "borree" instead "borrow". Twenty-one years in Missouri durn near ruint me! LOL

It was a wonderful treat
To hear the patter of horsey feet.

Thanks For The Buggyride recorded by Percival Mackey