Musicals

[zettel45]

A debate's started on another forum I visit about what is and isn't a musical. I know this has been discussed many times on Britmovie and I don't want to re-open the debate, but I do have a question.

Can any of you think of a film which isn't considered a musical but where characters suddenly (perhaps only once) break into song (and/or dance) while accompanied by music which appears as if by magic (there's a technical term for this kind of thing, but I can't remember it; basically I mean there's no realistic reason for the music - they're not on stage or anything like that)?

I'm sure there are examples, but I can't bring one to mind.

[julian_craster]

Smashing Time ?

Jazzboat ?

An Alligator Named Daisy ?

[jaycad]

'The Singing Detective'?

[Edward G]

TV series, but the fabulous "Lipstick On Your Collar".

[zettel45]

'The Singing Detective'?

I've not seen the film version, but aren't there quite a few songs in it (which would, to my mind, make it a musical)?

The sort of thing I'm after is what happens at the end of Slumdog Millionaire where they do a Bollywood song and dance routine. But that's carefully bracketed off from the "proper" action of the film. It would be nice to find an example where it happens slap-bang in the middle of the movie.

[CaptainWaggett]

I've not seen the film version, but aren't there quite a few songs in it (which would, to my mind, make it a musical)?

The sort of thing I'm after is what happens at the end of Slumdog Millionaire where they do a Bollywood song and dance routine. But that's carefully bracketed off from the "proper" action of the film. It would be nice to find an example where it happens slap-bang in the middle of the movie.

The Way to the Stars though the songs don't have the same fantasy element as Slumdog. The Roaring Twenties has a lot of songs for a film that isn't usually considered a musical.

[jaycad]

I've not seen the film version, but aren't there quite a few songs in it (which would, to my mind, make it a musical)?

The sort of thing I'm after is what happens at the end of Slumdog Millionaire where they do a Bollywood song and dance routine. But that's carefully bracketed off from the "proper" action of the film. It would be nice to find an example where it happens slap-bang in the middle of the movie.

I wouldn't class TSD as a musical as the story isn't being told through song-the songs are a figment of Philip Marlowes fevered imagination. I personally cannot stand musicals!

[CaptainWaggett]

I wouldn't class TSD as a musical as the story isn't being told through song-the songs are a figment of Philip Marlowes fevered imagination. I personally cannot stand musicals!

I think that's probably the key to a lot of people's definition - they hate musicals, therefore a film with lots of songs, that they like, can't be a musical Though Jaycad probably hasn't seen Oh Rosalinda! or he wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the twentieth century's greatest art form

[jaycad]

I think that's probably the key to a lot of people's definition - they hate musicals, therefore a film with lots of songs, that they like, can't be a musical Though Jaycad probably hasn't seen Oh Rosalinda! or he wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the twentieth century's greatest art form

To be honest,whilst I understood that the surreal musical scenes were fever induced in TSD,I still felt uncomfortable watching them so I am true to my claim that 'I cannot stand musicals'!! I recently watched Brittens 'The Turn of the Screw' and am resigned to the fact that I will never appreciate musicals or opera!

[zettel45]

The Roaring Twenties has a lot of songs for a film that isn't usually considered a musical.

Indeed - it's a feature of old gangster movies in general, because the mob boss usually has a moll who sings at the speak-easy and gets two or three numbers per film. It's a tradition that (I suspect) is knowingly glanced at in The Big Sleep where - for no good reason at all - Lauren Bacall gets to sing a song at the gambling club.

[zettel45]

To be honest,whilst I understood that the surreal musical scenes were fever induced in TSD,I still felt uncomfortable watching them so I am true to my claim that 'I cannot stand musicals'!! I recently watched Brittens 'The Turn of the Screw' and am resigned to the fact that I will never appreciate musicals or opera!

Some musicals you might like:

South Park the Movie

Team America

24 Hour Party People

Control

Walk the Line

La Vie en Rose

Spice World

OK, OK, not Spice World.

[jaycad]

Some musicals you might like:

South Park the Movie

Team America

24 Hour Party People

Control

Walk the Line

La Vie en Rose


Spice World


OK, OK, not Spice World.

What's wrong with 'Spice World'? Anyway it's not really a musical-the songs are a figment of Simon Fullers fevered imagination!

[faginsgirl]

OK, OK, not Spice World.

Exactly! Anything to do with the Spice girls hasn`t got much to do with music IMO

[cassidy]

Reaching for my stetson I am reminded that there's a musical interlude in the midde of "Rio Bravo" where Dean Martin suddenly breaks into "My Rifle, my Pony and Me" unacompanied to start with before Ricky Nelson starts strumming his guitar and they follow up with "Get along Cindy". You can check it out on Sunday on TCM. Also Kirk Douglas's "Whale of a Tale" in "Twenty Thousand Leagues under the Sea" but he is strumming a banjo.

A debate's started on another forum I visit about what is and isn't a musical. I know this has been discussed many times on Britmovie and I don't want to re-open the debate, but I do have a question.

Can any of you think of a film which isn't considered a musical but where characters suddenly (perhaps only once) break into song (and/or dance) while accompanied by music which appears as if by magic (there's a technical term for this kind of thing, but I can't remember it; basically I mean there's no realistic reason for the music - they're not on stage or anything like that)?

I'm sure there are examples, but I can't bring one to mind.

[Steve Crook]

A debate's started on another forum I visit about what is and isn't a musical. I know this has been discussed many times on Britmovie and I don't want to re-open the debate, but I do have a question.

Can any of you think of a film which isn't considered a musical but where characters suddenly (perhaps only once) break into song (and/or dance) while accompanied by music which appears as if by magic (there's a technical term for this kind of thing, but I can't remember it; basically I mean there's no realistic reason for the music - they're not on stage or anything like that)?

I'm sure there are examples, but I can't bring one to mind.

There are probably thousands of them.

Just about every film with a star who could hold a tune. From Doris Day to Norman Wisdom. It was very popular in the 1940s & 50s, less so now.

Think of Norman Wisdom in Trouble in Store (1953) when they're at the café in the park and Norman starts singing "Don't laugh at Me ('cause I'm a Fool)" to Moira Lister. There's another musical number in that film, when Norman sings "I'd Like To Put On Record That I Love You". But he's in the record department and sings along to a record. There's no visible band in the scene in the park. The music starts with a boy at a nearby table playing the harmonica - but soon develops into a full orchestra




It was hard to stop people like cowboys singing, and similarly anyone who came into films from a variety (or vaudeville) background would often burst into song. Thing of the Marx Brothers or even Laurel and Hardy



Steve

[Arfur Teacake]

I wouldn't class TSD as a musical as the story isn't being told through song-the songs are a figment of Philip Marlowes fevered imagination. I personally cannot stand musicals!

I have always found that point where the actor is talking dialogue to suddenly breaking into song (backed by an orchestra) rather disturbing, and the other actors in the scene looking embarrassed about the whole thing for me breaks the spell of the whole fantasy.

[didi-5]

I love musicals, and I don't find them embarrassing at all. More than one song makes a film a musical in my book, although I'm not sure where you would pitch westerns like Rachel and the Stranger or The River of No Return.

[GRAEME]

Can any of you think of a film which isn't considered a musical but where characters suddenly (perhaps only once) break into song (and/or dance) while accompanied by music which appears as if by magic (there's a technical term for this kind of thing, but I can't remember it; basically I mean there's no realistic reason for the music - they're not on stage or anything like that)?

The technical terms you forgot are "Diegetic" (naturally arising from a real on-screen sourse for realistic reasons - music played by characters on screen/songs sung on stage) and "Non-diegetic" (arising from without the world of the narrative - like most soundtrack music, even in non-musicals - or from a non-realist source as in most musicals). ["Deigesis" simply refers to the "world" of the film.]

[zettel45]

Think of Norman Wisdom in Trouble in Store (1953) when they're at the café in the park and Norman starts singing "Don't laugh at Me ('cause I'm a Fool)" to Moira Lister. There's another musical number in that film, when Norman sings "I'd Like To Put On Record That I Love You". But he's in the record department and sings along to a record. There's no visible band in the scene in the park. The music starts with a boy at a nearby table playing the harmonica - but soon develops into a full orchestra

Ah, yes - thanks! That's another trick they pull, isn't it: the quiet slide from diegetic to non-diegetic music... Speaking of which:

The technical terms you forgot are "Diegetic" (naturally arising from a real on-screen sourse for realistic reasons - music played by characters on screen/songs sung on stage) and "Non-diegetic" (arising from without the world of the narrative - like most soundtrack music, even in non-musicals - or from a non-realist source as in most musicals). ["Deigesis" simply refers to the "world" of the film.]

Ta. I always forget those terms.

[icetorch]

The original version of the The Wickerman comes very close: during the Maypole scene, it's clear that the music and singing you hear cannot all be coming from the on-screen musicians and participants. As for Britt Ekland's attempted seduction of the "virgin" Catholic policeman as he lies abed, while Christopher Lee, outside his window, comments in time to the music, that's hardly realistic either. The music is an integral part of that film, though, and I do love the eerily erotic song "Gently, Johnny", that is played in the pub by the "local" musicians.