batman

That's an interesting post Bob, thank you.

I know from personal and professional experiences that it is very difficult to separate a person from an act they have committed, even if that act was committed long ago, and especially when it has led to so much suffering for others.

I do not know Craig and have no desire to, but I think the man should be given a degree of credit for the fact that he has never attempted (as far as I know) to profit from his notoriety.

I certainly wouldn't have wanted to have lived his life.

Bats.

Steve Crook

Why contempt?

He served his time for that robbery, 10 years of it.
It wasn't him that convicted or hung Derek Bentley

It's not even certain that it was Craig that killed the policeman.
See Wikipedia article

Steve

D Cairns

"He never killed or hurt anyone, or at least, not in that robbery.

Er, I thought Craig DID kill somebody. Isn't that fairly notorious?

Ludovic Kennedy claims to have proved that Derek Bentley never shouted the famous "Let him have it," which seems to have been dragged in from an earlier case and used to prosecute Bentley since Craig was too young to hang.

Steve Crook

I edited my post quite quickly to say that it isn't certain that he killed anyone. The forensic tests strongly suggest the fatal bullet wasn't fired from his gun

And even if Bentley did shout the famous "Let him have it", did he mean "shoot him", or "give him the gun"?

Steve

batman

This case has so many contentious issues that it is possible we will never know exactly what happened on that roof. Some of these issues are ...

Bentley was hanged for the murder of PC Miles, but it was DC Fairfax whom Craig shot at immediately after the infamous cry of 'Let him have it, Chris'.

What exactly did Bentley mean by that cry? Was it 'shoot him' or 'give him the gun'

Bentley was already under arrest when PC Miles was shot, therefore their 'joint enterprise' was at an end by the time PC Miles was killed.

Did Bentley know Craig had a gun when they climbed on the roof?

... there are many, many more examples of similar questions.

The bottom line is that, regardless of any 'new' evidence or theory, Craig and Bentley were convicted of the murder of PC Miles. The sentences on both were carried out. Bentley is dead and Craig has led a law-abiding life since his release. Craig was 16 when PC Miles was shot. I am sure we all did things at aged 16 we regret and would never do again. Regardless of the surrounding issues Craig did his time and following his release has not (as far as I know) broken the law again. Perhaps he learned his lesson. For that we should be pleased to be able to say that, in his case, rehabilitation worked. For what happened to Derek Bentley, IMHO we should all be thoroughly ashamed.

My main sympathies in this case go to the family of PC Miles.

Bats.

smiffy

I think to most reasonably minded people that would be the perfect summary ,Well said Bats

I May be getting older ,but I refuse to grow up

Hackett

I'm not ashamed one bit. Why should I be I wasn't born. If Bentley was hanged on the new"Let him have it" theory then somebody lied under oath. A 1950's policemans statement was a very damning piece of evidence back then. Christies evidence from the witness box against Evans was given a lot of credence by the fact that he served as a sort of policeman during the war. If they lied then thier perjured statements put the ropes around Bentley and Evans necks.
The Bentley case is much better served by Alan Clarke's BBC play than that complete Bollocks of Peter Medak's "LET HIM HAVE IT" that even Iris Bentley turned her back on.

batman

When I used the word we I was using it as a collective term for our society. If, as an individual, you do not feel ashamed that's OK. We all have our own beliefs, standards or whatever and I fully respect your point of view.

Personally I find it difficult to accept what happened to that young man. IIRC Bentley is the only person in legal history to have been hanged for a crime for which two people were convicted and the other person didn't suffer the same fate. In similar cases either both the perpetrators were hanged or both served prison terms instead. Bentley, a 19yr old who was learning disabled with a mental age of 7, was killed purely "to encourage the others" (ie 'juvenile delinquents') to behave themselves. IMHO, and that of many people more knowledgable about the law than me, Bentley was little more than an "accessory before the fact". That we as a society allowed, even wanted, him to be hanged is IMHO shameful.

After reading many books on this subject, and seeing various dramatisations (inc the 2 mentioned above) I think it is quite possible that some police officers did lie at the trial.

However, PC Miles was obviously not one of those who may have lied, so as I said before, my main sympathies lie with his family.

Bats.

Hackett

Both Evans and Bentley had educational problems which should have been taken into question I would agree with that. But I also take into account the feelings of the time. A murdered mother and daughter bodies dumped in an outside wc washroom and a policeman shot dead. Take as an example the ferment up in Liverpool at the moment over the murder of Rhys Jones and the Peter Tobin case. If you took a vote on bringing back the rope in thier home towns it would be a resounding yes. I don't think hindsight should make us as a society feel ashamed or guilty, that was then.

This happend after the Bentley case.
In 1960 four youths beat and kicked to death Alan Jee while robbing him. Norman Harris 23, Christopher Darby 23, Francis Forsyth 18 and Terrance Lutt 17 were arrested and charged with capital murder; murder in the furtherance of theft. Darby was found guilty of non capital murder the other three guilty of capital murder. Harris and Forsyth hanged. Lutt didn't he was only 17. During the attack Lutt struck the first blow then held Jee down with the help of Harris and Darby while Forsyth repetedly kicked him, at the end Harris went through Jee pockets. When Forsyth was arrested he still had Jee's blood on his winklepicker shoes. In his statement he said he just kicked him to shut him up. Also on the day Harris and Forsyth were executed a friend of Forsyth called Victor Terry and two accomplices shot dead a bank guard during a robbery. Again 20 year old Terry took the drop the two 17 year old 's got life.