The Square (1957)

[Steve Crook]

Michael Winner's first film - The Square (1957) is now listed on the IMDb



Steve

[theuofc]

Michael Winner's first film - The Square (1957) is now listed on the IMDb



Steve

I didn't know the film but I found a summary at BFI. It sounds quite good. Did you get it added?



"Old man of class and character living in a London square after both have suffered from time. Before his house is pulled down, the residents surprise him with a party."

[Steve Crook]

I didn't know the film but I found a summary at BFI. It sounds quite good. Did you get it added?



"Old man of class and character living in a London square after both have suffered from time. Before his house is pulled down, the residents surprise him with a party."

Me and a few others who saw extracts of it being shown on the BBC's series about home movies. It's a borderline case as to whether it's a home movie because it's professionally made. But Michael Winner never managed to get it distributed anywhere so it's never been seen and he didn't get paid for it. All of the cast, except for A.E. Matthews, are amateurs, many of them living in that or similar London squares which have since been redeveloped



Steve

[earlb]

Me and a few others who saw extracts of it being shown on the BBC's series about home movies. It's a borderline case as to whether it's a home movie because it's professionally made. But Michael Winner never managed to get it distributed anywhere so it's never been seen and he didn't get paid for it. All of the cast, except for A.E. Matthews, are amateurs, many of them living in that or similar London squares which have since been redeveloped

Steve

A E Matthews, one of the dearest and greatest actors of all time - He makes it seem so effortless. As said it's borderline whether pro' or amateur but regardless it's a window on how we used to live - some still do.

[waldo_lydecker]

Winner strikes me as the Barbara Cartland of cinema - he's made a lot but I never seem to meet anyone who's seen much, if any, of his output, and how he ever kept going for so long remains a mystery to me. I once saw part of a film - Bullshot? Bullseye?? - he made, that seemed to alternate between camera angles from on top of a cupboard to ones in a ditch. Then I dozed off. Now he's pestering chefs. It seems a merciful relief.

[Steve Crook]

Winner strikes me as the Barbara Cartland of cinema - he's made a lot but I never seem to meet anyone who's seen much, if any, of his output, and how he ever kept going for so long remains a mystery to me. I once saw part of a film - Bullshot? Bullseye?? - he made, that seemed to alternate between camera angles from on top of a cupboard to ones in a ditch. Then I dozed off. Now he's pestering chefs. It seems a merciful relief.

Have you never seen Death Wish? Or West 11 (1963), I'll Never Forget What's'isname (1967), Hannibal Brooks (1969), Chato's Land (1972), The Mechanic (1972), The Stone Killer (1973), The Big Sleep (1978) ?



He did make some very good films and many people have seen a lot of them - and like what they saw



Steve

[waldo_lydecker]

Have you never seen Death Wish? Or West 11 (1963), I'll Never Forget What's'isname (1967), Hannibal Brooks (1969), Chato's Land (1972), The Mechanic (1972), The Stone Killer (1973), The Big Sleep (1978) ?



He did make some very good films and many people have seen a lot of them - and like what they saw



Steve

Look, mate, I disagree with most of the things you say, but I never feel the need to intrude in order to denounce your opinions, yet, for some bizarre reason, you appear to find it intolerable that I express views that don't fit snugly with your own. Is it because you're a moderator? Do you wear a uniform or something? I think you'll find that many people share my view of Winner's oeuvre, so you're going to have your work cut out rapping all their knuckles for having the temerity to not think like Steve Crook thinks. Can't you ever just agree to disagree?

[Steve Crook]

Look, mate, I disagree with most of the things you say, but I never feel the need to intrude in order to denounce your opinions, yet, for some bizarre reason, you appear to find it intolerable that I express views that don't fit snugly with your own. Is it because you're a moderator? Do you wear a uniform or something? I think you'll find that many people share my view of Winner's oeuvre, so you're going to have your work cut out rapping all their knuckles for having the temerity to not think like Steve Crook thinks. Can't you ever just agree to disagree?

That's interesting, how you know so much about me from just looking at a few simple comments that I made. What a shame that you're so wrong in so many ways. But I suppose that that just fits in with your opinion of me. It's like when someone accuses you of being in denial. If you deny it, it just confirms their opinion



Steve

[ollie]

Better not mention two of my faves "the jokers" and my favourite of all "the system" then and while i'm at it i must dig the nightcomers out for a viddy

[John Hamilton]

Winner strikes me as the Barbara Cartland of cinema - he's made a lot but I never seem to meet anyone who's seen much, if any, of his output, and how he ever kept going for so long remains a mystery to me. I once saw part of a film - Bullshot? Bullseye?? - he made, that seemed to alternate between camera angles from on top of a cupboard to ones in a ditch. Then I dozed off. Now he's pestering chefs. It seems a merciful relief.

Always felt Winner suffered by being overtly commercial in his outlook; at a time when many of his contemporaries were making 'worthy' films, he was openly embracing Hollywood-style projects. That fact that he was prone to crass statements and blatent self-promotion didn't help.



he made some spectacularly crap films but he made some interesting ones too and maybe one or two good ones; he certainly deserves to be better thought of than the caricature he has allowed himself to become

[Geoffers]

Always felt Winner suffered by being overtly commercial in his outlook; at a time when many of his contemporaries were making 'worthy' films, he was openly embracing Hollywood-style projects. That fact that he was prone to crass statements and blatent self-promotion didn't help.



he made some spectacularly crap films but he made some interesting ones too and maybe one or two good ones; he certainly deserves to be better thought of than the caricature he has allowed himself to become

I watched a very odd Winner film the other day, entitled "Behave Yourself". I couldn't decide whether it was intended as a comedy or a documentary about good manners with humour to lighten it. Winner made a kind of cameo appearance as himself during the opening credits, wearing a sandwich board which on one side said "keep death off the road" and on the other that he was directing the film.



Most curious.

[TomDaws]

The most amusing thing I know about Winner is that he once made a travelogue called This Is Belgium which, for budget reasons, was filmed mostly in East Grinstead !

[charliekane]

A curious fellow, Michael Winner - these days a lot of people probably forget that he was ever a film director at all. He made some big successful movies with stars like Burt Lancaster, Jack Lemmon, Charles Bronson of course, but if he's thought of at all now, it's probably as a 'British' director.



Nevertheless, he's quite a helpful and personable bloke - he told me an interesting story about when he was about 10 or 11 and somehow wrote a 'celebrity' column for a newspaper (forget which one). He was living opposite Michael Powell in Melbury Road and, although he didn't know him, learned that Powell was having a birthday party for one of his sons, so strolled across to ask if he could come - with the intention of 'reporting' it in his column.. Micky apparently said that if was so important to him, he could. Winner considered for a moment, but then, 'faced with such kindness, I left.'

[Tigon Man]

Have you never seen Death Wish? Or West 11 (1963), I'll Never Forget What's'isname (1967), Hannibal Brooks (1969), Chato's Land (1972), The Mechanic (1972), The Stone Killer (1973), The Big Sleep (1978) ?



He did make some very good films and many people have seen a lot of them - and like what they saw



Steve

I agree with you on this one Steve. Winner bashing is very fashionable these days and granted he has made some dross, but he has made some very enjoyable movies, my favorites being The Jokers (1966) and I'll Never Forget Whats'is Name (1967)and The Big Sleep (1978) even the unpalatable Dirty Weekend (1993) was well cast and decently enough made, despite the subject matter.



He also managed to attract big Hollywood stars to his movies including, Brando, Mitchum, Lancaster to name but a few. These were A list stars of their day, so Winner must have had some pull in the industry, those guys were no mugs.



It's easy to forget that he was making films in the UK when few other people were and keeping people in employment. So granted although he was never likely to win an Oscar for best director, but let's give the old rogue a bit of grudging respect and appreciate his efforts on behalf of the Brit movie industry over the years.

[John Hamilton]

Have you never seen Death Wish? Or West 11 (1963), I'll Never Forget What's'isname (1967), Hannibal Brooks (1969), Chato's Land (1972), The Mechanic (1972), The Stone Killer (1973), The Big Sleep (1978) ?



He did make some very good films and many people have seen a lot of them - and like what they saw



Steve

I also quite like The Nightcomers- a million miles from The Innocents of course but no film with Brando is completely worthless

[seanflynn76]

There's a rare oppurtunity to watch Michael Winners "West 11" on October 3rd. Portobello Pop-up Cinema are showing the 1963 film, which is rarely shown on t.v let alone been granted a long-awaited DVD release. The features the talents of Alfred Lynch, Diana Dors, Eric Portman, Marie Ney and an excelant cameo from Kathleen Harrison. For further details check out their website www.portobellopopup.com

[Toscana]

I would be the first to admit Mr. Winner has turned out some rubbish but when he turns out some good stuff it can be very good stuff. I agree with the above mentioned like Death Wish, Jokers etc, my personal favorite is Chorus Of Disapproval. I think he did a great job with Alan Ayckbourn's script. At the time I thought it was going to take Winner off in a new direction maybe up to a higher level. I can't see him coming back to film making as he seems to have become a large professional caricature of himself. I still find him entertaining and enjoyed his book enormously. If there is one thing I would like him to do on film or in print is a in depth story of his mother. Now she was some Lady.

[Grant]

I sort of grew up with some good Winner films. You must be joking!, The Jokers. Hannibal Brooks, when I was young and as a teenager films like Chato's Land, The Stone Killer and The Mechanic. Although a lot of people don't rate it I thought his original Death Wish was an excellent film.



When not behind the camera though I just find him annoying.

[Spasuit]

If only we could be assured that Michael Winner had made his LAST film , What peace and contentment that would bring to millions of people...

[Steve Crook]

If only we could be assured that Michael Winner had made his LAST film , What peace and contentment that would bring to millions of people...

Except for all the people on this thread who have said they quite like some of his films.

It's when he's making adverts or when he's being a "celebrity" that he's more annoying.



Don't fall for the hype that he was a bad film-maker or that nobody likes any of his films



Steve