Public Domain British films and copyright?

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by zandycap I seem to remember something about a UK law which stated that anything made before 1979 had an automatic 28 year copyright and if the author wanted to, they could apply for another 28 years after that had finished. Which is why many things are not under copyright under uk law, as it costs money to file copyright, which some obviously either never had or begrudged paying.

Check the Wikipedia guide to UK copyright. The rules are different for different things like for books, broadcasts, sound recordings, films etc.

Steve

[CaptainWaggett]

Originally Posted by zandycap I seem to remember something about a UK law which stated that anything made before 1979 had an automatic 28 year copyright and if the author wanted to, they could apply for another 28 years after that had finished. Which is why many things are not under copyright under uk law, as it costs money to file copyright, which some obviously either never had or begrudged paying.

Editions stay in copyright for 25 years after publication which may be what your thinking of but that's not the same as the actual work There's no system of copyright registration in Britain though it might be sensible to prove you were the first person to create a particular work (eg by depositing a copy of the manuscript at the bank). There's patent registration but that's slightly different.

Basically all British films are still in copyright however much Ebay sellers might wish otherwise!

[JamesM]

Originally Posted by zandycap I seem to remember something about a UK law which stated that anything made before 1979 had an automatic 28 year copyright and if the author wanted to, they could apply for another 28 years after that had finished. Which is why many things are not under copyright under uk law, as it costs money to file copyright, which some obviously either never had or begrudged paying.

That relates to be US law. This is what is often cited in these bogus eBay sales. !978 is the year, ot 1979.

I the US, they had this wonderful concept for authors of books, plays and music whereby if they sold their work at a young age and it later became a success, they could only ever sell off up to 28 years of copyright. This saw to it that a best-selling author who had brought his gift to many would never find himself destitute in later life whilst his work was in print. For films, however, that right went to the company who hired or bought the works. This principle was dropped in the 1978.

If the author or owners never bothered to re-register a work in its 29th year, the copyright would lapse. This has never been true for British copyright but US copyright was applied to British films in America up until 1996. EBay, of course, began after then.

[JamesM]

Originally Posted by batman This import of SLATF is for sale on Amazon .... could this be the DVD Mykiddar saw in a shop?

It could be but it should not have been sold in a shop as this would fall foul of the Video Recordings Act. Nice box though.

[Viva Fisher!]

I happened to pick up a copy of Villain from eBay last week advertised as 'Public Domain' (it cost 99 pence) or something. It is the most appalling transfer I have ever seen but it did make me nostalgic for the 1980s when pirated copies of 'A Clockwork Orange' and 'Texas Chainsaw Massacre' were like gold dust despite being, frankly, unwatchable.

If this is an indication of the quality, then I'd recommend avoidance to anyone tempted to buy.

[julian_craster]

Copyright policy - MPs urge clarity on 'orphan' works

27 March 2008

MPs have said there needs to be a clearer policy on "orphan" works or those for which it is impossible to trace the copyright holder, according to a committee of MPs on the work and operation of the Copyright Tribunal, which adjudicates in commercial disputes over copyright. A report by the subcommittee of the Innovation, Universities, Science and Skills Select Committee concluded: "We recommend ... the Intellectual Property Office set out its policy on the treatment of orphan works and that, in particular, it explain whether it supports licensing of or exemptions for orphan works."


Times Higher Education - Education news, resources and university jobs for the academic world

[batman]

Originally Posted by Viva Fisher! I happened to pick up a copy of Villain from eBay last week advertised as 'Public Domain' (it cost 99 pence) or something. It is the most appalling transfer I have ever seen but it did make me nostalgic for the 1980s when pirated copies of 'A Clockwork Orange' and 'Texas Chainsaw Massacre' were like gold dust despite being, frankly, unwatchable. If this is an indication of the quality, then I'd recommend avoidance to anyone tempted to buy.

Treat yourself to a proper copy ....

Amazon.co.uk: Villain [1971]: Richard Burton,Ian McShane,Nigel Davenport,Joss Ackland,Michael Tuchner: DVD

[JamesM]

Originally Posted by julian_craster Copyright policy - MPs urge clarity on 'orphan' works 27 March 2008 MPs have said there needs to be a clearer policy on "orphan" works or those for which it is impossible to trace the copyright holder, according to a committee of MPs on the work and operation of the Copyright Tribunal, which adjudicates in commercial disputes over copyright. A report by the subcommittee of the Innovation, Universities, Science and Skills Select Committee concluded: "We recommend ... the Intellectual Property Office set out its policy on the treatment of orphan works and that, in particular, it explain whether it supports licensing of or exemptions for orphan works."

I was looking to see if I could find a sound feature film that had fallen out of copyright. I couldn't. I was looking at one title and wondered if it was in copyright and if it could be known whether or not it was .

The film was White Ensign (1934). The film only has two authors, composer Colin Wark (who died in 1939) and writer / director John Hunt. John Hunt's last credit was for as film starring Dinah Sheridan made in 1939 and i can find no further information relating to John Hunt.

The copyright must last until at least next year but who would really know ehen its copyright runs out (i.e. when did John Hunt die?).

[Viva Fisher!]

Originally Posted by batman Treat yourself to a proper copy .... Amazon.co.uk: Villain [1971]: Richard Burton,Ian McShane,Nigel Davenport,Joss Ackland,Michael Tuchner: DVD

I'd never seen it but the ten minutes that I got through convinced me. Delivery expected on April Fool's Day.

Cheers Batman!

[Cheeky Bob]

Originally Posted by JamesM The film was White Ensign (1934). The film only has two authors, composer Colin Wark (who died in 1939) and writer / director John Hunt. John Hunt's last credit was for as film starring Dinah Sheridan made in 1939 and i can find no further information relating to John Hunt. The copyright must last until at least next year but who would really know ehen its copyright runs out (i.e. when did John Hunt die?).

In cases like these where you genuinely don't know but have made an equally genuine effort to find out, you can usually go ahead and assume copyright has lapsed.

The sole legally binding condition is that if it subsequently transpires that there is a copyright issue (for instance, if John Hunt's descendants get in touch, pointing out that he actually died in the 1970s), you agree to withdraw the work without argument.

[Cheeky Bob]

Originally Posted by zandycap I seem to remember something about a UK law which stated that anything made before 1979 had an automatic 28 year copyright and if the author wanted to, they could apply for another 28 years after that had finished. Which is why many things are not under copyright under uk law, as it costs money to file copyright, which some obviously either never had or begrudged paying.

Like others, I don't think this was ever a British law - and in any case it would have been superseded by the 1988 Copyright, Designs and Patents Act, which is the current state of play (with the addition of some 1990s EU tinkering).

I could be wrong about this, but I don't think there's ever been a specific requirement in UK law to register a work for copyright - copyright applies automatically from the moment a work is created, regardless of whether it's a professional feature film or amateur home movie.

In practice, as others have noted above, it's pretty much inconceivable that a film made prior to 1958 will be in the public domain in Europe - and those titles tend to be government-sponsored and therefore crown copyright. Almost everything else made after 1938 will still be copyrighted, and a fairly huge chunk of pre-1938 titles will be as well (thanks to the 70-year rule about individual creative contributions). Even work by some of the very first Victorian pioneers is still technically copyrighted, because people like Cecil Hepworth died less than 70 years ago.

So as a general rule of thumb, if anyone on eBay posting from a British address claims that a work is in the public domain, they're probably talking bollocks.

[Mykiddar]

Thanks everyone for your erudite comments on this 'public domain' business. It was much appreciated. Re the DVD version of 'So Long at the Fair' that I saw it was in HMV's store in the Metrocentre at Gateshead and was priced at £16. When I went back the following week the copies they had had disappeared but the plastic title divider with the title on it was still there to show where it had been until a couple of weeks ago.

[themetalguru20]

How do do find out is a film is out of copyright?
You see all this "Public Domain" stuff on ebay and I wonder if it is legal.

[CaptainWaggett]

British film copyright lasts for 70 years after the deaths of the main creatives - writer/director/composer. So it doesn't apply to any of the British films being sold on eBay as public domain. However you may not have any other way of getting the films...

[Steve Crook]

The public domain rules only really apply to American films in America.
But unscrupulous eBay sellers will spout any old nonsense if it helps them sell a few more.

There are some respectable sellers on eBay. Cherish them

Steve