Public Domain

[Mykiddar]

Can anyone explain to me exactly when and how a film falls into this seemingly copyright free zone? I presume it isn't simply a matter of age.
There seems to be a burgeoning 'cottage industry' for reproducing films with this designation on ebay at nominal prices, but then again I've sometimes seen copies of the same films for sale in HMV, albeit rather more professionally packaged, at High Street prices. 'So Long at the Fair' with Jean Simmons and Dirk Bogarde springs to mind as an example.

[Fellwanderer]

Originally Posted by Mykiddar Can anyone explain to me exactly when and how a film falls into this seemingly copyright free zone? I presume it isn't simply a matter of age. There seems to be a burgeoning 'cottage industry' for reproducing films with this designation on ebay at nominal prices, but then again I've sometimes seen copies of the same films for sale in HMV, albeit rather more professionally packaged, at High Street prices. 'So Long at the Fair' with Jean Simmons and Dirk Bogarde springs to mind as an example.

I think, as far as eBay is concerned, it is down to poetic licence on behalf of the seller

[batman]

Basically, if a film was made less than 70 yrs ago and a significant contributor to the film (director, writer etc) is still alive the film remains under the control of the rights holder. Therefore under UK law most films are not in the public domain. I think that is right.

[CaptainWaggett]

It's for 70 years after the death of the writer/director. Same as with books. So it's very unlikely that any British (or European) film is genuinely in the public domain whatever the Ebay sellers tell us.

[DB7]

Originally Posted by Mykiddar There seems to be a burgeoning 'cottage industry' for reproducing films with this designation on ebay at nominal prices, but then again I've sometimes seen copies of the same films for sale in HMV, albeit rather more professionally packaged, at High Street prices. 'So Long at the Fair' with Jean Simmons and Dirk Bogarde springs to mind as an example.

All those on Ebay use old US copyright law which iirc required the copyright holder to renew the film rights. As a result of some administrative lapses during the 70s a number of films fell into the public domain - often not genuinely as the source novel or music was under copyright. The US have since amended their laws a number of times to seek harmony with the EU and many PD films have returned to copyright (often because they're derivate of a copyrighted work).

[JamesM]

To be more accurate, those eBay sellers quote (not use) US law but it is no use to them when it is applied to British films, even in the US itself. British copyright law for British films has applied in the US for over twelve years now.

[JamesM]

Originally Posted by Mykiddar Can anyone explain to me exactly when and how a film falls into this seemingly copyright free zone? I presume it isn't simply a matter of age. There seems to be a burgeoning 'cottage industry' for reproducing films with this designation on ebay at nominal prices, but then again I've sometimes seen copies of the same films for sale in HMV, albeit rather more professionally packaged, at High Street prices. 'So Long at the Fair' with Jean Simmons and Dirk Bogarde springs to mind as an example.

I must say that I am surprised to hear that you saw a copy of So Long at the Fair on DVD in a HMV store. I would not be surprised to find a more professional looking bootleg at HMV (such as Orbit's releases, and by professional looking I refer only to the box) but one with a bogus or absent certificate from the BBFC (even Orbit do not fall fowl of the law there).

Are you sure about that?

Can you name the store?

[D Cairns]

I'm pretty sure the copyright situation in the UK is even more complicated than suggested. It's true that 70 years after the author's death applies with books, but what about films where it says "X Productions is considered the author of this film for copyright purposes"? Corporations can be technically immortal!
And there seem to be a lot of 1950s British films getting cheap DVD releases and turning up on Film4 a lot, seemingly because the copyright has lapsed -- I'm thinking of all those Romulus Productions, for instance. That could be to do with the company no longer existing.
Or is there another explanation?

[JamesM]

Originally Posted by D Cairns And there seem to be a lot of 1950s British films getting cheap DVD releases and turning up on Film4

And EVERY single one of them is in copyright as the 1950s followed 1938.

There's something called a "work for hire" which puts copyright status with the company but in the UK the writers, directors and composers are still considered the authors. It is an irony that the work produced has a value relating the to the lifetime of the authors who can often have no financial association with a work beyond their initial payment.

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by D Cairns I'm pretty sure the copyright situation in the UK is even more complicated than suggested. It's true that 70 years after the author's death applies with books, but what about films where it says "X Productions is considered the author of this film for copyright purposes"? Corporations can be technically immortal! And there seem to be a lot of 1950s British films getting cheap DVD releases and turning up on Film4 a lot, seemingly because the copyright has lapsed -- I'm thinking of all those Romulus Productions, for instance. That could be to do with the company no longer existing. Or is there another explanation?

Yes, there probably is, but you need a higher degree in copyright law to have a chance of understanding it
I certainly don't understand it fully. But there's a quite good UK copyright law for dummies on Wikipedia. If you can get your head around that then there's a lot more reading that follows it.

Steve

[JamesM]

I wonder if the makers of Dick Turpin (1933) had a clue hat the film they had produced would have a copyright last 165 years and counting.

[batman]

This import of SLATF is for sale on Amazon .... could this be the DVD Mykiddar saw in a shop?

[zandycap]

A lot of it has to do with whether or not the film was first a book. Also of course whether sold in the uk or usa. The ITV company waited till the copyright ran out in Britiain on conan Doyles Sherlock Holmes works, then made the series with Jeremy Brett. They would not have been able to do this in the USA, where they works were initially released several years later. This is why the guy who made the Sherlock Holmes movies with Ian Richardson never made the 6 he was planning to. He was angry that the Conan Doyle estate had not told him that the copyright was very soon running out in the UK, and made him pay so much even knowing he was to film in the UK and not America.

[Cheeky Bob]

Originally Posted by D Cairns I'm pretty sure the copyright situation in the UK is even more complicated than suggested. It's true that 70 years after the author's death applies with books, but what about films where it says "X Productions is considered the author of this film for copyright purposes"? Corporations can be technically immortal!

Which is why they're not regarded as a living entity in terms of copyright law. In other words, if the film is more than 70 years old and has no credits or any other means of identifying who made it, you're probably safe (but don't quote me!).

[zandycap]

I seem to remember something about a UK law which stated that anything made before 1979 had an automatic 28 year copyright and if the author wanted to, they could apply for another 28 years after that had finished. Which is why many things are not under copyright under uk law, as it costs money to file copyright, which some obviously either never had or begrudged paying.