Damn the Defiant!

[harold]

Hi
Just watched this on tv this afternoon nice film any one else see Alec Guinness this was the usa release title i did not know that. UK was H.M.S Defiant.

[wadsy]

Certainly tough times for our seamen in those days!!!

[TheLurkerKIng]

I've seen it a couple of times on American TV, and the naval battles are some of the best I've ever seen staged in a film.

The film is based on the novel "Mutiny" by Frank Tilsey, which is loosely based on the Spithead Mutiny.

Some of the other actors appearing in the film are Dirk Bogarde, Maurice Denham, Nigel Stock, Anthony Quayle, Tom Bell, Murray Melvin, and Bryan Pringle.

This would be Joy Shelton's last film.

[Gary D.]

This is probably my favorite Dirk Bogarde movie. I like him as an outright cad. I also just finished 'Master and Commander'; good, but not as much so as 'Damn the Defiant' (or 'H.M.S. Defiant,' if you will).

I don't like to romanticize any navy in those days of floggings (I wonder how long that continued?). Must have been hell. But, let's face it, those illiterate seamen and their sturdy ships made Great Britain the premiere power from the Napolenic Wars up to at least the beginning of the 20th century.

Also, among my favorite Royal Navy yarns is 'Sink the Bismark.' Now, Kenneth More I always like as a hero--I can't envision him any other way.

Gary Judkins

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by Gary D. This is probably my favorite Dirk Bogarde movie. I like him as an outright cad. I also just finished 'Master and Commander'; good, but not as much so as 'Damn the Defiant' (or 'H.M.S. Defiant,' if you will). I don't like to romanticize any navy in those days of floggings (I wonder how long that continued?). Must have been hell. But, let's face it, those illiterate seamen and their sturdy ships made Great Britain the premiere power from the Napolenic Wars up to at least the beginning of the 20th century. Also, among my favorite Royal Navy yarns is 'Sink the Bismark.' Now, Kenneth More I always like as a hero--I can't envision him any other way. Gary Judkins

For old style Royal Navy books or films, try the Hornblower stories by C.S. Forrester. Much better than the book of Master and Commander and any film version of a Hornblower story is much better than the film of Master and Commander because you don't have Russell Crowe preening and doing strained accents all over the place

Captain Horatio Hornblower R.N. (1951) with Gregory Peck is quite good for a 1950s film but the TV movies with Ioan Gruffudd are far superior.


As for more modern naval stories - C.S. Forrester wrote the book that Sink the Bismarck! (1960) was based on. That film is very good, but it mainly takes place in the Admiralty. The Battle of the River Plate (1956) has the best depiction of a real battle at sea, because they were allowed to use real warships.


The Royal Navy suspended flogging in peacetime in 1871 and altogether in 1879. Although a lot of more enlightened Captains only used it for the most severe crimes for some time before then

Steve

[Gary D.]

I had no idea flogging went on as late as 1870. But, then, we didn't do away with slavery until ten years before that--I think you around 1820.

I grew up reading the Hornblower stories--I think I read them all. Surprisingly, after I saw the 1951 movie, I couldn't get Gregory Peck out of my head--to this day, despite the later television series, Peck IS Hornblower.

I still think it's important for a nation to be able to project its power through a navy--not the battleship, though, I'm afraid. Even today, when I read of the Prince of Wales (new at the time) and its companion (the Repulse?) being sunk by the Japanese, I'm amazed. That, coupled with the sinking of the venerable Hood must have been devastating to Churchill at the time.

I did some research on the Missouri--I know that President Reagan spent millions on having it reoutfitted--and later it was used in the first Gulf War. When I heard it was being decomissioned and rumors were flying around that the Japanese were buying it and hauling it off to Tokyo for scrap, I bombarded Senator McCain's office with protests. I think it would have been too much to have the ship that witnessed the historic signing in Tokyo Bay returned for scrap.

Fortunately--not through our efforts, probably--it now is stationed in Pearl Harbor--which seems appropriate. The battleship Arizona which began our part in the war and the battleship Missouri which ended it.

Gary Judkins

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by Gary D. I had no idea flogging went on as late as 1870. But, then, we didn't do away with slavery until ten years before that--I think you around 1820. I grew up reading the Hornblower stories--I think I read them all. Surprisingly, after I saw the 1951 movie, I couldn't get Gregory Peck out of my head--to this day, despite the later television series, Peck IS Hornblower. I still think it's important for a nation to be able to project its power through a navy--not the battleship, though, I'm afraid. Even today, when I read of the Prince of Wales (new at the time) and its companion (the Repulse?) being sunk by the Japanese, I'm amazed. That, coupled with the sinking of the venerable Hood must have been devastating to Churchill at the time. I did some research on the Missouri--I know that President Reagan spent millions on having it reoutfitted--and later it was used in the first Gulf War. When I heard it was being decomissioned and rumors were flying around that the Japanese were buying it and hauling it off to Tokyo for scrap, I bombarded Senator McCain's office with protests. I think it would have been too much to have the ship that witnessed the historic signing in Tokyo Bay returned for scrap. Fortunately--not through our efforts, probably--it now is stationed in Pearl Harbor--which seems appropriate. The battleship Arizona which began our part in the war and the battleship Missouri which ended it. Gary Judkins

Odd, I was never convinced by Peck as Hornblower (I grew up reading the books as well), but for me, Ioan Gruffudd is perfect. Just the right balance of being strong in the heart but not very muscular in the body and having to win the loyalty of those who serve with him

HMS Hood was venerable in the sense of being old. It was the "pride of the Navy" between the wars but she was badly out of date by the start of WWII. As we see in Sink the Bismarck!, she was in the process of being refitted when she was sent to sea to try to help stop the Bismarck. It was a shock to the nation as well as Churchill when she was blown up and sunk with all hands (except 3 lucky survivors).

HMS Prince of Wales was patrolling with her and after blowing up the Hood, the Bismarck turned her guns on the Prince of Wales. The deck gunnery officer was a young actor (and Royal Navy reservist) called Esmond Knight and the Bismarck firing at him was the last thing he saw clearly. He lost one eye and was blinded in the other although he later regained a very small amount of sight. But after some good medical (and psychological) attention and with the help of his friends he went back to acting. Check out some of his performances and compare those before the war to those during and after the war. It's hard to believe that he was effectively blind for those later performances.

Because he was injured in the battle against the Bismarck he was put ashore of course and didn't go with the rest of the crew to the South China Sea in December of that year. That's when she was sunk.

Steve

[julian_craster]

Did HMS Defiant re-use sets from Mutiny on the Bounty re-make ?

There were several naval dramas around this time inc Billy Budd

Seems likely ......

[Harleybloke]

I watched a documentary a couple of weeks ago that was very interesting, I think it was Tony Robinson's 'Crime & Punishment' series.

The Royal Navy started flogging for offences that on Land were hanging offences. It was the first step towards doing away with some 200 offences on land for which you could be executed. Sailors were too valuable to keep stringing them up to the Yard Arm!

The Hollywood image of savage Captains was commented on as being the minority. It certainly happened but in a fighting ship everyone had to work together very closely in battle or all would be at risk. We'd call it 'Teamwork' today! Captains tended to use good man management rather than always the lash!

[Gary D.]

Steve, I found that very interesting what you wrote about the HMS Prince of Wales. It added to my knowledge. Didn't Churchill travel on the Prince of Wales to meet up with President Roosevelt in Newfoundland to establish the Atlantic Charter?

I am familiar with Esmond Knight but didn't realize he had lost an eye on the Prince of Wales. I have to go back into the movie database to check out his list of films.

For a long while, I had him confused with Anton Walbrook, who was in what would have been a totally forgettable film had it not been for the 'Warsaw Concerto. '

Off the track, but that music's composer, Richard Adinsell, is one of my favorite composers. He also did the theme music for The Prince and the Show Girl, in which Laurence Olivier just about lost his brain over Marilyn Monroe's tardiness on the set.

Gary Judkins