A Pemberton

Can anyone tell me how the propaganda films ,story based films not documentaries ie The Foreman Went to France(great film) got made ,were they government financed,were they part of Ealings war effort, contribution to boosting moral perhaps ?,were companies told to make them,did government (perish the thought) have an creative input? or was it just simply that they were a popular genre of the time?


Does anyone know?

smudge

You should dig out a copy of Charles Barr's EALING STUDIOS.

Barr puts Ealing forward as very much the studio that the Government wanted to do business with during the war, but only cites one direct commission, Thorold Dickinson's NEXT OF KIN. All of the other films of that ilk were, simply, Ealing commercial output.

As Balcon said himself, his idea was to put forward a good story, make a film that people would want to see, whilst at the same time carrying a message which would help the propaganda effort and the morale of the nation as a whole.

Even though NEXT OF KIN was a 'sponsored' initiative from the security services, once Ealing got behind it, it was Ealing money and an Ealing production. Ironically the only Government intervention came at the last, when Churchill himself had doubts about the way the film could be read and almost pulled it.

It went on to be a great success with the forces and civilians alike. Also, of course, it was stamped firmily at the end, "Made in Ealing" [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]

SMUDGE

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif[/img]

Welcome to my house. Enter freely, and of your own will...

Steve Crook

Not an Ealing film (made at Denham for Two Cities), The Way Ahead (1944) started life as an Army training film The New Lot. Also written by Peter Ustinov and Eric Ambler and starring some of the cast that finished up in The Way Ahead (Niven came in later). The training film had upset some Army top brass with its frankness and was suppressed. It has recently re-emerged thanks to a copy found in an archive.

A lot of other films at the time were made with Government approval, if not actual support. Forty-Ninth Parallel (1941) was commissioned by the Ministry of Information although Rank eventually bought out their stake and funded it.

The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (1943) was made despite the extreme displeasure of Churchill. The Ministry & the Army refused to give them any help. Asked later how they got all the trucks & uniforms, Powell said "We stole them"

A Matter of Life and Death (1946) was made at the request of the Ministry of Information but without any financial assistance from them.

Steve

A Pemberton

Quote

The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (1943) was made despite the extreme displeasure of Churchill. The Ministry & the Army refused to give them any help. Asked later how they got all the trucks & uniforms, Powell said "We stole them"




Does this quote read as the script was sent to the government before the film was made and needed some kind of green light to be a propaganda piece.I vaguely remember reading that Churchill blocked Olivier starring in it.

Censoring the propaganda sounds slightly totalitearian to me and answers my question of "creative" input in wartime propaganda films.

Steve Crook

They did often send the scripts to the Ministry before making the films - usually in the hope of getting some equipment to use rather than any money. When Churchill decided that he didn't like the sound of it The Archers just ignored him and made the film anyway. As you say they originally wanted Olivier to play the lead but the Ministry blocked his release from the Fleet Air Arm, so they used Roger Livesey instead and the film was probably the better for it.

Churchill tried to be totalitarian at times but had to be reminded that even while we were at war, we were still a democracy.

But you're assuming that there was something special that made a film a "propaganda film". I think it was really more the case that all British film-makers were on our side so there were propaganda elements in most films made in that period. But very few of them were pure propaganda. Sometimes the message was quite subtle, like in Blimp having the most pro-British speech spoken by a German.

How do you define a "propaganda film"?

Steve

A Pemberton

How do you define a Propaganda Film?

thats some question [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/shocking.gif[/img] , the dictionary says:-
Propaganda is a specific type of message presentation aimed at serving an agenda

A patriotic film is based on raising spirits and boosting moral but propaganda in any form is based for me around some sinister manipulation of truth for political ends.
During war time I would have thought people thought British films were patriotic and the Nazi films were propaganda,In this case could the Nazis have thought Triumph of the Will for example was patriotic and Ealing film The Foreman Went to France was propaganda.

I dont think there is a general clear definition for propaganda in war time and its a very grey area ,however I do believe pressure from government at that time heavily influenced what we saw on the screen.

Billy Liar

Didn't Hitchcock return from the US to direct some propaganda pictures?

DB7

How can you class a film based on a true story as propaganda? There were a few patriotic producers that needed no push from the government to go to work.

Steve Crook

He directed two shorts for the Ministry of Information - in French.
Bon Voyage (1944) & Aventure malgache (1944)

His last full length film made in the UK before the war was Jamaica Inn (1939)

Steve

Steve Crook

That's how I see it.

Steve

Steve Crook

That's why I thought it'd be interesting to ask it [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif[/img]

I don't think any pressure was needed.
All the Government did through the Ministry of Information (Films division) was to make certain facilities available and to give some people leave from the armed forces (or to refuse it in the case of Olivier for Blimp).

Steve

A Pemberton

I dont know the exact exploits of Melbourne Johns in france but I love the Foreman went to France as what it is ,a patriotic/propaganda ,flagwaving piece.If your lucky enough to have a copy(I have) at the beginning it states
The producers gratefully acknowledge the co-operation of of the War Office and the Free French Forces. I dont believe the majority of film producers all produced without some government help/hinderance in war time

We British dont subscribe to propaganda in its aryan and communist forms but The Foreman went to france is propaganda/patriotic/flag waving call it what you will

Even the BFI calls TFWTF a Ealing propaganda piece [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif[/img]

Steve Crook

Yes, it's a great film. But how much co-operation and in what form did the War Office and the Free French Forces actually give I wonder? Was it anything more than the use of the lorry, a few uniforms and maybe some troops to use as extras?

Sometimes I think the only help they were given was the lack of hinderance [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]

Propaganda is a very slippery term and almost everyone has a different definition for it.

I'd suggest that there was a series of films that were more like pure propaganda - the shorts that explained why rationing and the blackout was necessary and how to make carrot cake or why you could only buy fish you'd never heard of like snook. But, because they were aimed at the British public, they were cleverly made to be quite humorous.

Steve

DB7

It was the type of story Ealing's writers were attracted to and Balcon would have greenlighted war or not. Post-war Ealing wouldn't have made Ships with Wings but they were drawn to tales like The Cruel Sea and Dunkirk. Whereas Went the Day... was a message film, FWTF is largely a human story and apart from the odd fifth columnist or overhead fighter the enemy rarely appear, red tape and the French terrain are what they must overcome.

There is an American actress but many filmmakers of the day were doing likewise [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]

A Pemberton

I agree, its typically British and typically Ealing ,its what I love about Ealing brilliantly observed british people wether wartime or not

@Steve Crook & DB7
You really have a passion for films and its pleasing to see it in action,long may it continue,not always against me though [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blushing.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blushing.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img] please [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rotfl.gif[/img]