Cheeky Bob

Yes - it's bollocks. As far as UK copyright law is concerned, Will Hay's films are currently owned by Granada (the pre-1940s Gainsborough titles) and Studio Canal (the Ealing titles). This will remain the case for many years to come.

There's a possibility that they may be inadvertently (or cynically) citing some other country's copyright laws, but as far as UK (and European) law is concerned, Will Hay's films are definitely not in the public domain.

In fact, so draconian is current legislation that it's extraordinarily difficult for films to pass into the public domain - a handful of pre-1920s titles, but that's pretty much it.

JamesM

The same copyright extends to other parts of the world including the whole of the US.

beaubernie

Yes Try HMVs website I just bought "Oh Mr Porter", "Windbag the Sailor", "Where theres a Will theres a way", "Ask a Policeman", "Boys Will be Boys" and a few others whose names escape me in a boxed set.
yours
BeauBernie

mikehenfron

Can be found on play.com for £39.99

Mike

chudofbroady

The old ebay scamsters at it again "Public Domain" lol

JamesM

First they sell you something they shouldn't, then they print a bold lie claiming they are not infringing copyright, that's what gets me.

rachris

Anybody know what is meant by PUBLIC DOMAIN and what films are included and what is the law regarding purchasing or selling DVD-R copies of these so called public domain films. As there is heck of a lot of 50-60s British films never been released on DVD or video, some that are real undiscovered treasures... Many thanks Chris

DB7

These films aren't public domain in the UK - it's just a wheeze by some ebay sellers to avoid having their listings pulled.

Wolfgang

In many cases their copyright is owned by companies that have folded or gone bankrupt so there may be no-one around to start legal proceedings - I guess that is how many of them get away with it.

Steve Crook

Or the copyright has been passed around so much that nobody (except expensive lawyers) can figure out who is the copyright holder.

But that doesn't change the fact that there are no (or as good as none) public domain films in the UK. They get away with it on eBay because eBay has little idea of the laws in the rest of the world - or chooses to pretend not to know.

Steve

MrT

The main problem with copyright law is that the law has been changed over the years, and it is not clear whether the changes were then applied retrospectively to films that had gone out of copyright under existant laws. In the UK film was not mentioned specifically in terms of copyright duration until the Copyright Act of 1956, which stated a blanket 50 year term for film copyright after a film had first been made available to the public. (Previous to this film was protected as a series of individual frames or photographs). The revised Copyright Act of 1988 again stated that the copyright duration of films was for 50 years, putting films and sound recordings under the same heading. It is worth noting that the 50 year copyright on sound recordings is also under review, as the recordings of Presley, the Beatles and others approach the 50 year barrier.

The current confusion arises over legislation passed in 1996 intended to harmonise copyright law throughout the EC.

In some ec countires copyright on film was more restrictive than in the UK, placing film under a 70 year copyright period. As from 1st january 1996 this extended copyright period was introduced into UK law. The question at issue was whether the law was applied retrospectively to films whose copyright had already expired in the UK, bringing them back into copyright. A question was asked in the House of Lords on this issue, and the reply given suggested that the law only applied to works currently under protection (Applying the 1988 Copyright Act this would imply that any film that had had a general release before December 31st 1945 in the UK had technically gone out of copyright, and was thus not protected by existing copyright law on 1st january 1996).

However, there seems now to be a concensus that the law was applied retrospectively, making for a very confused situation. The arguemnets have not been fully tested in court under UK law and until more clarity is obtained literally hundreds and hundreds of films of interest to collectors made by long defunct companies 60 or 70 years ago remain lying unseen and unloved in the vaults. Absolutely crazy.

Mike (MrT)

penfold

Could I ask for some clarification; the seventy year rule...you say (or imply) that it's 70 years from the commercial release; I was under the impression that it was 70 years after the death of the prime movers; hence, for instance, the rights to the films of Georges Melies (560 of them, from 1896 to 1914) are still owned by the Melies estate, as he died in 1938...at least for a couple of more years....As Steve said above, there are actually very few films genuinely in Public domain.

Bit of a Bay Window, what??

penfold

I agree that this situation is crazy...but I don't think it's down to copyright legislation....it's down to financial constraints placed on film archives (Here and abroad) coupled with the huge costs of making viewable prints.....the shockingly small amounts the NFTVA get from the government would make you weep. Almost every restoration has to be sponsored or has to have a commercial partner now. They had been trying to get the Friese-Greene colour films restored for a decade or more...it was only when the BBC got involved in the wake of the Mitchell and Kenyon programmes could some restoration take place...the series is billed as a BBC/Bfi co-production, basically that meant the bfi had the material and the knowhow, the BBC the money ...and even then I'm not sure if all the material was restored, or just the sections the BBC wanted to use in the series.

Bit of a Bay Window, what??

MrT

Yes, you are correct, the 70 year copyright term does not apply to 70 years from the date of theatrical release, but 70 years after the last to die of the director, author of the original screenplay,etc.

I still maintain that the main issue which requires clarification is whether the 1996 harmonisation legislation was applied retrospectively to ALL films, including those that were currently out of protection on 1st january 1996 - and by the Copyright Act of 1988 this would mean any film released to the public on or before 31st December 1945. If it was retrospective then it can be safely said that virtually no sound films produced in the UK have passed into the public domain.

Until this point is clarified most distributors and commercial enterprises assume that the legislation was retrospective and due to the almost impossble job of ascertaining who holds copyright will not release films of this vintage. E-bay sellers routinely offer for sale the vintage films of Old Mother Riley, Frank Randle and others and although their activities may be being monitored, I am not aware that anyone has been sued for breach of copyright by offering these films.

Mike (MrT)

penfold

Ebay sellers of this type seem to come into two categories; American-based, so are going by laxer US legislation by ignorance or wishful thinking (and that hoping they're beyond the reach of litigation) and those attempting to hide behind the dubious loophole of 'Back up copies of films you already have on tape'....

Bit of a Bay Window, what??