Public Domain British films and copyright?

[Wolfgang]

Copyright essentially only applies to retail titles anyway, at least in practical terms. To sue someone over copyright infringement and to win damages I think you have to demonstrate loss of income, which would be impossible to do for many titles that we trade.

[cassidy]

They are all brit films, in fact Dark Eyes of London with Bela Lugosi was the first British "H" certifificate. I agree with you about a channel for old films and tv series, also your comments about the so called current "Classic" channels. Somewhere I've got some old episodes of Dial 999 with Robert Beatty which I quite enjoy, also Fabian with Bruce Seton who was actually a hereditary knight although he never used his title in films.

Dont know how the copy right laws work but i did find 3 films on archive that were based on Edgar Wallace storys, they were dark eyes of london, the gaunt stranger and the terror, they look like brit films but not sure,

[JamesM]

Does law apply to where you are based or where website is based, or both even? With something like Archive.org I just assume you are only subject to US copyright law.

It does. With GATT, a a foreign film's copyright will last the greatest length it could last in the another country or at the point it expires in its own country of that is earlier. For example, Things To Come was restored by GATT in 1996 but it will go out of copyright in the US again in 2031 unless the law changes.

Although the film is owned by ITV Studios Global, they have not actually bothered policing it. They listed it in a list of NIEs (notice of intention to enforce copyright) but have even allowed a colourized bootleg version of the film to be sold by E1 Entertainment (who also put out BBC screened series such as Ashes To Ashes).

[JamesM]

Point taken, i only have the sellers word that the stuff i bought was PD, thats scotland yard, scales of justice, Edgar Wallace mysterys etc, i have no way of knowing for sure

There is one way, look at the clock on your computer and if it isn't the year 2050 yet, they can not possibly be in the public domain.

[JamesM]

Dont know how the copy right laws work but i did find 3 films on archive that were based on Edgar Wallace storys, they were dark eyes of london, the gaunt stranger and the terror, they look like brit films but not sure,

Edgar Wallace's works are all out of copyright but these films are also the works of other copyright holders. These films could not possibly go out of copyright. People do upload films to the Internet Archive and then falsely claim they are in the public domain.

[Gerald Lovell]

They are all brit films, in fact Dark Eyes of London with Bela Lugosi was the first British "H" certifificate.

And here are those dark eyes - well, Bela Lugosi's at least - over the main title background:



Previously posted on another thread, but not in widescreen this time!

This film was released in the U.S. by Monogram as The Human Monster and most DVD sales seem to be of that which is regarded as public domain there.

[JamesM]

The problem is that a number of multi national companies have inherited vast swathes of UK,particularly pre war titles and have absoloutely no intention of releasing them so everyone is effectively prevented from viewing them.I think it would be a good idea to make it a requirement that the copyright will only continue so long as a video release is made every say 10years.If they dont then the film falls into public domain.After all how many British 30s films were released on DVD this year,hardly any.I was waiting for "Limelight" which was supposed to be released on april 18th.When it wasnt i asked when i aske d what was happening and was told that they were trying to get better picture elemnts.Havent heard since.Surely they check that a decent print exists before announcing a release.I have given up waiting for this 1936 film.

Many US films are talked of as having fallen in to "public domain hell". A public domain film is often deemed not fit for restoration because, in the US, the restored copy could be used by anybody so it would be difficult to recoup the costs. It would hardly be fair to force a copyright owner to release something they do not want to be screened / available for a period of time. However, perhaps a law could be introduced similar to what you suggest where the company in question has to continue to make films in question available OR register a non-automated decision not to make titles available to the public. The 'public domain' status should be for a limited period only and royalties / residual payments should still be honoured and other copyrights in the film should also be upheld.

[JamesM]

And here are those dark eyes - well, Bela Lugosi's at least - over the main title background:



Previously posted on another thread, but not in widescreen this time!

But it is!

This film was released in the U.S. by Monogram as The Human Monster and most DVD sales seem to be of that which is regarded as public domain there.

True but, of course, it isn't actually in the public domain in the US.

[orpheum2]

We have a situation where books from many years ago are still available to read at public libraries.The publisher benefits from the sale of the book and the money he gets from the public lending right.I dont see why the situation should not be the same for films.Yes i know DVDs are available at the library but you are hardly likely to be able to pick up a copy of Goodnight Vienna or Tell england.After all this would benefit the copyright owners.Quite frankly the films may as well not exist if they are merely to be locked up for all time in some vault never to see the light of arc again.

[Arfur Teacake]

Point taken, i only have the sellers word that the stuff i bought was PD, thats scotland yard, scales of justice, Edgar Wallace mysterys etc, i have no way of knowing for sure, it just seems a shame that all this old stuff is not available as free downloads when sellers are makeing a fortune flogging it on ebay, after all it's only stuff they copy'd from the telly or old vhs or from other sellers,
i wish there was a channel dedicated to old classic movies/series, all those channels on cable and 90% are total crap,
the old "carlton channel was good but it went down the pan, TCM's ok but same old reruns, thats about all we have for older films
arrrgh !!!

If its the same guy who says his Edgar Wallace stuff is 'licensed by the Kruger Org" .Then that may have something to do with the German Edgar Wallace films ? but it certainly has absolutely nothing to do with the British films he is selling .Their copyright is owned by Canal + at last count

[Moor Larkin]

Quite frankly the films may as well not exist if they are merely to be locked up for all time in some vault never to see the light of arc again.

They are a business asset and so will never be given up and who would they given to anyhow?
The Rank Organisation film library was sold to Carlton Television in 1997................
........................The Rank film archive is now owned by ITV Global Entertainment, a subsidiary of ITV plc.
Search Results - CLG Wiki)

Streaming video gives these companies a way forward to either sell the viewer a *watch* or attract advertising by giving the viewing away. Blinkbox in Britain seems a very efficient model of how all this could work and ITV have placed a lot of content on there. TCM looks to have a great site too but I gather we are blocked from the US avaialbility, just as they are from Blinkbox.

So much for Globalisation...

One other problem is that many people who like to watch old movies also want to *own* the movie too and so hanker after a dvd or such item and this is where the big costs would kick in for any distributor, but if the enthusiast obtains these via trading, then the enthusiast will never use the online distributor and so this clash of desires means much of this streaming of arcane, old stuff might likely die on the vine. It's never going to give the rights-holders more than pennies anyhow, compared to a dvd/online release of some new CGI-3D epic or other.

Niche marketing seems already to be happening via companies like Network/Madman/A&E, but now we are seeing the same old stuff just being released over and over on differing formats and in different regional codings, with new packages of "Extras".

[Wolfgang]

That Warner Archive seems to work quite well. They basically just burn film onto DVDR, and there are many dealers that seem to make money from doing that already anyway, so I am sure something along those lines would work.

[popeye]

The seller that i got my edgar wallace collections from did state(in his ebay add) that he had the blessing of the "Kruger corp", i think this was more for the benifiet of ebay (to stop them "lifting" his add) than to bull#hit the buyer, whichever i was only interested in getting my mits on the set, he'd copy'd them all from Bravo", i'd tapped many of these old series way back when but sadly stuffed many by placing a large warfdale speaker on the cabinette they were in,
I do like to"own" a copy as opposed to keeping them on a hard drive, same with pay per view, i begrudge paying to watch a film when it wont let me make a copy for myself, especiall as they charge up to a fiver for a new release, wait a few weeks and the same film useually pops up on ebay for 99p,
As for downloads, i love them, and just wish more brit films were available, i would willingly pay a reasonable ammount to download stuff, that would benifiet the copyright owner and me, they aint makeing money locked up in a vault after all, and it would go some way to putting a stop to some of these ebay and ioffer rip offs,

[batman]

If its the same guy who says his Edgar Wallace stuff is 'licensed by the Kruger Org" .Then that may have something to do with the German Edgar Wallace films ? but it certainly has absolutely nothing to do with the British films he is selling .Their copyright is owned by Canal + at last count

That's our old mate at Media Classics .... he's been selling this stuff for years and his claims about The Kruger Organisation have been debated several times. The Kruger Organisation does exist and claims to be linked to the entertainment industry via an assortment of companies including one called Movie Gems.

On Jeffrey Kruger's webpage it states .....

"Movie Gems Limited has acquired world rights and exclusive ownership in and to all the classic 1950/1960 films and television series from the world famous Danziger Film Production unit. These include all the episodes of Sabre of London, Richard the Lionheart, Man from Interpol, The Cheaters, The Edger Lusgarten Series and Calling Scotland Yard amongst many more. I am delighted to announce that Pegasus Entertainment Limited are the exclusive sales, distribution and exploitation company for these and many other fine films and television programmes, therefore collectors can currently visit the Pegasus Entertainment Web site to purchase these rare items on DVD."

Mind you ..... Pegasus DVDs are of dubious quality in general and often look like off-air recordings.

[popeye]

Thats the guy!! forget his name but we swopped emails quite a bit, seemed a genuine bloke, (although his prices were a bit steep) i'd love to get the complete series of saber of london/the vise and the cheaters, in fact quite a few, i have 8 episodes of the vise, 4 of the cheaters 8 of diall 999, i've been waiting for when i became "established" so i can ask about them in the dvd's wanted section, soon as i can i'll list the ones i have,
are these "pegasus" dvd's expensive?

[batman]

are these "pegasus" dvd's expensive?

About a fiver.

link 1: Pegasus Entertainment - Putting respectability back into budget

link 2: http://www.pegasus-ent.com/index.php

[popeye]

Thanks very much for the links, i'll have a look, nothin better to do today as were snow'd in, just browse and download