silverwhistle

But if some roles require it, should it not be taught?

"Trust me, I'm a doctor...!"

Aaryk Noctivagus

Oh come on... he was being humorous... even I could tell.

Yes. Forget Vets, students of the sciences, the army and the such like.

I do not mean to denigrate what actors do in the least... but to call their work 'one of the most intensive job trainings' denigrates a lot of careers in itself. Unlike some, I take the arts seriously... I admire those who go to art school, drama school, film school, and who study political science. I know many do not take them seriously, but I do. However to come out and speak of it as 'one of the most intensive job trainings' is laughable.

Have you never seen Michael Caine in 'Zulu'?

Neither does it change the worth of Sean Connery. Some actors are so strong, they can even play Russians using their Scottish accents.

However, many great actors manage or make the attempt with degrees of success, otherwise Accent coaches would be out of work.

There is a lot of snobbery against RP these days which is why it is seldom heard on the TV. However, it is no good appearing on stage without speach training. Stage requires that the dialogue is understood... because stage plays are about dialogue. RP is nice clear pronounciation... whereas Rab C. Nesbit is difficult to comprehend in Dorset.

I'm neither for or against RP... but I would favour the actor that attempts to speak according to the role than the one who didn't bother.

Mr Dean

There are some good film actors with believable working-class accents. Samantha Morton may not be A List but she has been in plenty of high profile films. The Scots have Shirley Henderson and Kelly McDonald. Then there is Gina McKee, Natalie Press, Kate Dickey . . . OK, some of these names might not be well-known to mass audiences, but they are part of the strength of contemporary British Cinema.

Generally I'm with Pye, whose defence of drama schools I support, but I also admire Ken Loach for only casting actors who he thinks have the appropriate class and regional background to play a role convincingly.

ChristineCB

I'm not too fond of homogenizing accents away, and we've had discussions of poorly-used non-natural accents. I think I'd like the writers to adjust their stories more often if an acceptable accent can be learned.

"Oh, he moved here..."
"Oh, he washed up on our shore..."
"Oh, some big bird dropped him into our country."

(Actually, I think it would take 2 swallows to actually pick up and carry someone across borders, right?)

DB7

The article seems all over the place. On the one hand citing Mockney and next Neighbours. Have to say I have noticed the ‘rising inflection’ or 'Uptalk' but I thought it was more Southern US influence rather than Oz. (the "one time... at band camp" actress in American Pie being a fine example)

Either way, the world is a smaller place today and accents always mutate over the decades.

Steve Crook

Thanks Aaryk. The laughing icon () was another clue.

Steve

kelp

Another angle regarding regional accents. I work in a Regional Drama, Produced in Birmingham. One would suppose that as it is set in Birmingham that the people in the programme would have Birmingham accents, or at least most of them, or something that resembles a Midlands accent? One actress in the show comes from Brum. The remainder are all London cast! It stands out like a sore thumb. After years of trying to get the BBC to "Get Real" (sorry) and understand that people that live in Birmingham might just have a Birmingham accent, or at least something that resembles one, and to try casting in Brum, nothing has altered. The strange thing is, the viewers don't appear to have picked up on this for some reason. Ah, well. On the matter of people who cannot do accents, you know the John Wayne syndrome. Were back with Robson Green again arn't we.

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR...YOU MAY GET IT!

Steve Crook

But most people don't realise the difference between Birmingham and Black Country accents

Steve

christoph404

Er, yes I think that was a llighthearted joke by Steve," calm down dear" lets not take ourselves too seriously, a bit of mockery never goes amiss.

The point about Michael Caine never varying his accent? now you are being jokey...aren't you? I seem to remember Caine's breakthrough film , Zulu,"and Introducing Michael Caine" he has a fair attempt at an upper class English officer accent, in his next starring film "The Ipcress File" he reverts to his mild cockney and as Alfie? well come on, we all know Caine doesn't really speak in that exagerated slang cockney. And what about "Kidnapped" ? if Im not wrong that was a game attempt at a Scottish accent which even I as a hardened Scot wil forgive him cos I enjoyed the film and I admire him as an actor!! I think its difficult to tell sometimes what an actors reall accent is, Pierce Brosnan's natural lilt is unmistakably Irish and Connery believe it or not always tones down his Scottish accent for films, and what about Peter Sellers? I don't think anyone knows what he sounds like as himself and I always remember his bizzare performance on Parkinson in the 70's where he conducts the interview in a very affected upper class voice, obviously not him....strange.I think one of the most talented actors around today who is brilliant at vocalising different accents has got to be Robert Carlyle, now his natural lilt is Glaswegian but his Bond villain in The World is not Enough is superb. I would tend to agree that part of an actors repertoir is an ability to speak in different accents or even languages, always helps I think as Chris Plummer proves in "The Royal Hunt of The Sun" (with some help from voice artist Robert Rietty)....

ChristineCB

Kelp, do you have a guess about the causes and influences of a good Put-On or Learned accent, as opposed to poor ones?

Does it depend heavily on the desire of the student to learn? Is it one of those "You're either born with it or you're not" things? Do you find that some teachers are better than others and, if so, is this teaching success a Desire issue, too?

I of course wouldn't put you on the spot to talk about personal experiences with Accented Speech and the How-To's and Why's... oh no, not ME... I'd NEVER do that... uh uh... not me!

kelp

That is so true Steve. Just try saying to someone from Dudley or West Brom or Wolverhampton, "Oh, your from Birmingham arn't you"..............I can hear the reply now.
"Or Bay Meyt, They Do Tork roight!"
Being born right on the edge of Brum, at Great Barr, I had to speak both dialects to be understood!

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR...YOU MAY GET IT!

kelp

Christine. To answer that is a difficult one, as some will agree with me, and others will not, but here goes. In my opinion and experience I think that one has to have a genuine "feeling" for accents. I started very early (long before many of you guys were born....apart maybe for Aitch?) and could mimic local accents to my area. When I began in the business, initially I was doing cartoon voices, all the usual ones Daffy, Micky, and Bugs and Porky, just for my own amusement really. My heroes were Mel Blanc and Don Messick and my all time heros was voice man was Daws Butler. I began studying initially via his books, and then when I was in California I was fortunate enough to visit his studio, and take classes with the man himself. But that was for what we call voice characterization. But many people think of Daws as just a "cartoon Voice Man" far from it. Apart from all the characters he did "Yogi Bear", Top Cat", Hucklberry Hound" and so on, he was an amazing dialect man too. He could begin in his native American accent and slowly over a continuous five or six minute period change from American, to Irish, then a perfect English accent then into a rough Bronx accent and then a French accent and so on. He, to my mind was a genius in his particular field. By now most people will have gone cross-eyed with boredom, but if your still with me.....I think that if you have an aptitude for "doing voices and dialects" then it is sort of "easier", and comes out with a natural sound. To go to a dialect coach and say "Teach me to speak with a Bronx accent" well, that doesn't always work. I work a lot in radio, and in Corporate. A lot of my work is voice charaterization, some of it is both, I mean crazy Brumagem voices, or dialect stuff for Corporate CDs. My voice is used at the moment in "The Rat Pack Live" where I am the voice of American comic Icon "Jerry Lewis". I also voice "Tony Curtis". One is a Newark accent and the latter is a Bronx accent. Now I guess people would say, "well they're the same arn't they?" They are completely different. Hey, I'm giving a lesson here....sorry.
So, to sum up. I love actors that can change their voices, actors who can become American, or Irish or Welsh or whatever, they to me anyway, are complete. I cannot subscribe to the Robson Green, John Wayne, style, it is incomplete, they are missing a component in their armoury of talent. The late great Peter Sellers was a complete actor. No one actually taught him, he had so much talent in the voice department. But now I am taking up too much of everyones time. I could talk voices and dialect all night. But don't worry I'm not going too.
"Now see what you've started Christine!

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR...YOU MAY GET IT!

gollum4

But we generally like our actresses with a cut-glass accent and a rod up their arse, right? :-D

Samantha Morton is doing well, but I think Jane Horrocks was right when she said the middle-class actresses tend to get hailed more (scoop the awards, land the big roles, etc.)

gollum4

Different in film though- some of the greats have been mumblers, adding to the naturalism, while the acclaimed stage actors can often seem rather hammy.

ChristineCB

Kelp, I'll keep firing questions - you haven't bored me yet! (You keep trying, though, eh?!! ha ha)

Have you incorrectly learned an accent or characterization, only to discover the superior nuances later? If so, how did that occur? Did you visit that locale and immerse yourself?

This would be useful, perhaps, in accents, and not necessarily in your characterizations - which are beasts all unto their own, I suspect - something of an accent but more painted onto a character you take over or you created.

My idea for "writers should change the story" comes from the use of English actors in American films. Basil Rathbone hardly needed ANY story change or acknowledgement that his accent EXISTED in films. Nor Ronald Colman, who was playing "small town American college professors' in PEOPLE WILL TALK but no one ever explained his accent, nor did he disguise it. "Just do it" and let the audience worry about it.

Which I greatly prefer than seeing failed or floppy faux-accents (the Kevin Costner ROBIN HOOD crap). Jeepers - it would have been better if he'd just mumbled his way thru - we'd have laughed at his appearance in that role anyway, but now we laugh at his performance AND make fun of his accent attempt).

Or in the American SILVERADO, where John Cleese is given a one-sentence line of explanation for his English accent in the American wild west. Writers CAN do that, I think...just explain it away. It takes a sentence or two - and it's a WHOLE lot better than faux accents.