Sign Language in Films

[Ascoyne D'Ascoyne]

I started the video-recorder off yesterday to record "Treasure Island" starring one of my favourite actors, Robert Newton and noticed a corner of the screen was taken up by someone interpreting the text in sign-language. Now, I am well-aware that this is a special service for the deaf (although teletext already supplies sub-titles)and I do not object to it, but I do wish that the TV companies responsible would repeat these films (which are rarely shown) without the signing for those of us who find it distracting.
Recently, for the first time in years, I went to the opera to see Britten's "A Midsummer Night's Dream" and was astonished to see that this performance included sign-language interpretation from a lady at the side of the stage. Am I missing the point when I ask "Why would deaf-people want to go the opera?" Am I being crass in thinking this might be just another invention of a PC society which nobody has any real use for?

[Wolfgang]

I think you make legitimate point. They should just make it into digital option and make Freeview box free to someone who is deaf, because it does ruin it for everyone else watching.

[Steve Crook]

AlBabson: I started the video-recorder off yesterday to record "Treasure Island" starring one of my favourite actors, Robert Newton and noticed a corner of the screen was taken up by someone interpreting the text in sign-language. Now, I am well-aware that this is a special service for the deaf (although teletext already supplies sub-titles)and I do not object to it, but I do wish that the TV companies responsible would repeat these films (which are rarely shown) without the signing for those of us who find it distracting. Recently, for the first time in years, I went to the opera to see Britten's "A Midsummer Night's Dream" and was astonished to see that this performance included sign-language interpretation from a lady at the side of the stage. Am I missing the point when I ask "Why would deaf-people want to go the opera?" Am I being crass in thinking this might be just another invention of a PC society which nobody has any real use for?

Why shouldn't they enjoy the opera?

Even if they haven't been deaf all their life, opera isn't just an auditory experience.

You say you find signing distracting. Why? Doesn't the film hold your attention enough? When you're at the cinema, are you similarly distracted by everyone else there?

Signing can express emotions and nuances that subtitles can't.

Steve

[Steve Crook]

Wolfgang: I think you make legitimate point. They should just make it into digital option and make Freeview box free to someone who is deaf, because it does ruin it for everyone else watching.

How does it "ruin it"?

There are very few films that are signed and they are shown in the small hours. Why should they do it on the digital service just in case you want to watch?

Steve

[MrDrakesDuck]

AlBabson: I started the video-recorder off yesterday to record "Treasure Island" starring one of my favourite actors, Robert Newton and noticed a corner of the screen was taken up by someone interpreting the text in sign-language. Now, I am well-aware that this is a special service for the deaf (although teletext already supplies sub-titles)and I do not object to it, but I do wish that the TV companies responsible would repeat these films (which are rarely shown) without the signing for those of us who find it distracting. Recently, for the first time in years, I went to the opera to see Britten's "A Midsummer Night's Dream" and was astonished to see that this performance included sign-language interpretation from a lady at the side of the stage. Am I missing the point when I ask "Why would deaf-people want to go the opera?" Am I being crass in thinking this might be just another invention of a PC society which nobody has any real use for?

Definitely don't agree about the opera scold , but must admit was peeved a while back when I taped 'True as a Turtle' off ITV, only to find a signer in the corner.

Occurred to me as well about showing with and without, although It's hardly a realistic hope.

Originally posted by SteveCrook: How does it "ruin it"?

Well I found it unwatchable with the sign language but by propping a book over that corner of the screen It was OK. wink

[Guybrush Threepwood]

I may have missed the point here but dont these digital channels, DVDs etc have sub-titles that you can choose to put on or off for this very reason?


Threep.

[Ascoyne D'Ascoyne]

Why shouldn't they enjoy the opera? Even if they haven't been deaf all their life, opera isn't just an auditory experience. You say you find signing distracting. Why? Doesn't the film hold your attention enough? When you're at the cinema, are you similarly distracted by everyone else there? Signing can express emotions and nuances that subtitles can't. Steve

I know opera isn't just an auditory experience but the music is its main "raison d'etre". We talk about ROSSINI's "Barber" not Beaumarchais' and STRAUSS's "Salome" not Wilde's when we go to the opera. In the case of A midsummer Night's Dream, the play is performed often enough in its original form so why anyone should want to go and see it in a production where an essential element is missing for them is beyond me.The words of an opera are often unintelligible anyway, even when sung in English, and I find it's best to mug-up on the plot before I go if I want to know what's going on. I would be interested to know just how many deaf people DO go to the opera when it's sign-interpreted.
I find film-signing distracting because an element has been added to the film which was never intended to be there. The same is true, of course, of subtitles but they don't make animated, exaggerated gestures all the time. The fact is I prefer to watch films as the director intended them and I'm surprised that you don't seem to understand that I would like TV companies to run a repeat-showing of seldom-seen films in their original form for those who want to view them that way. After all we get enough repeats of rubbish!If you re-read my original post you will see that I wasn't making an objection to the broadcasting of sign-interpreted films.

[ 01. September 2004, 10:14: Message edited by: AlBabson ]

[Jim]

AlBabson: I started the video-recorder off yesterday to record "Treasure Island" starring one of my favourite actors, Robert Newton and noticed a corner of the screen was taken up by someone interpreting the text in sign-language. Now, I am well-aware that this is a special service for the deaf (although teletext already supplies sub-titles)and I do not object to it, but I do wish that the TV companies responsible would repeat these films (which are rarely shown) without the signing for those of us who find it distracting. Recently, for the first time in years, I went to the opera to see Britten's "A Midsummer Night's Dream" and was astonished to see that this performance included sign-language interpretation from a lady at the side of the stage. Am I missing the point when I ask "Why would deaf-people want to go the opera?" Am I being crass in thinking this might be just another invention of a PC society which nobody has any real use for?

I watched it as well Al; I also looked up Bobby Driscoll on IMDb and he died of drug abuse in a lonely room in America 1968 I think - what a shame.

But what a bloke old Newton was! Bit of a boozer i believe although it doesn't seem to have carried over into his acting; unless anyone knows different? :)

[ollie]

"You say you find signing distracting. Why? Doesn't the film hold your attention enough? When you're at the cinema, are you similarly distracted by everyone else there?"

Steve, i have to disagree also,it's not a question of the film not holding your attention enough but when you have waited for several YEARS! for a favourite film to be shown on tv,as there are NO releases in any other format available, it is a travesty to see someone waving their arms around in the corner of the screen,for god sake it's bad enough when they talk over the credits at the end of a film thus totally ruining the ambience that has been built up over the course of the film,adverts dont even!(sorry if that sounds harsh but it's how I feel)
next bone of contention is audiences,i can no longer go to the cinema,i have found over the years for me personally that watching film is a totally personal and solitary experience,i love to talk about films and stuff afterwards (thank god for britmovie)
but i dont want to experience other peoples reaction to things,i'm only interested in my thoughts at the time,it's great to get reactions later!because people perceive things differently.

once a person sat in front of me,and ate a DONNA KEBAB? I SAY ATE more like slurped and belched their way through it,how did they get it in(down their trousers?) you can imagine what that was like!!
these are the views of a self confessed selfish (in some respects )person.
cheers Ollie.

[Steve Crook]

You will have to make that trek to the NFT sometime Ollie. The rules there are "No food or drink" (except maybe water when it's very hot) and if anyone talks during the film they get a severe "tut tut" from the people around them.

It's not expensive (even cheaper if you're a member) and they show first release films as well as the more obscure ones. There's also a quite decent cafe & bar by the river.

Steve

[ollie]

SteveCrook: You will have to make that trek to the NFT sometime Ollie. The rules there are "No food or drink" (except maybe water when it's very hot) and if anyone talks during the film they get a severe "tut tut" from the people around them. It's not expensive (even cheaper if you're a member) and they show first release films as well as the more obscure ones. There's also a quite decent cafe & bar by the river. Steve

Steve i'm jealous,that sounds like heaven to me,i hope i get off my backside soon and get down there it, might just change my perspective(slightly)lol.
cheers Ollie.

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Actually, although the NFT is a mighty fine Cinema, for a REAL treat you should try the Electric in Notting Hill...

Electric

Threep.

[Steve Crook]

Guybrush Threepwood: Actually, although the NFT is a mighty fine Cinema, for a REAL treat you should try the Electric in Notting Hill... Electric Threep.

Yes, equally good. They showed Peeping Tom there when the Director's Guild (belatedly) awarded Michael Powell a plaque on his old house.
Report on PaPAS site.

I quite like the Curzons as well (Mayfair & Soho) and the Prince Charles. They have all been known to show some decent old films at special events.

Although the NFT is to be praised for its "no food" policy.

Steve

[The_Late_Peter_Cook]

ollie: "You say you find signing distracting. Why? Doesn't the film hold your attention enough? When you're at the cinema, are you similarly distracted by everyone else there?" Steve, i have to disagree also,it's not a question of the film not holding your attention enough but when you have waited for several YEARS! for a favourite film to be shown on tv,as there are NO releases in any other format available, it is a travesty to see someone waving their arms around in the corner of the screen,for god sake it's bad enough when they talk over the credits at the end of a film thus totally ruining the ambience that has been built up over the course of the film,adverts dont even!(sorry if that sounds harsh but it's how I feel)

I feel a bit heartless typing this, but the other week I taped 'Upstairs, Downstaies' an old 'fifties comedy that for some reason I had never seen before. I tried watching it but the signer kept distracting me. It spoiled my enjoyment so much that I didn't bother videoing the movie shown the next week ('Appointment With Venus').

I wouldn't complain if it wasn't only chance I had to watch the film (I'd gladly buy the DVD).

[DAVID RAYNER]

Albabson, with regard to showing old cinema films, forget about television. It's been going to down the pan for a long time and now it's even worse. Treasure Island with Bobby Driscoll and Robert Newton is available on a Walt Disney DVD and it's a beautifully restored Technicolor transfer. There's no sign language on it either.