sitom

I'm a fan of British television and have a question that I've never seen addressed. Why are some people referred to as "our" and then their name is used as in "our Rose"? On "Keeping Up Appearances" there are many references to the characters as "our Rose" or "our Hyacinth". I once heard singer Petula Clark referred to as "our Pet". Is this a typical way for the British to refer to their loved ones? How and when did this start?
Thanks for your help.

Tom

sanndevil

My two cents worth goes something like this...we have a phrase in this country "Our Kid" which is basically a term a sibling will use when referring to a younger sister or brother. For instance "Our kid will be playing football today with us"

So, the phrase conjures up a picture of family, familiarity, and proximity. It could then be extended to refer to another person who one feels with the same affection - someone who could be considered part of the collective family - such as Our Gracie or Our Rose. This person could be in the immediate family or alternatively someone in the public conscious who his held in high esteem, and is considered 'one of the public' i.e. would probably exhibit working class properties - e.g. Gracie Fields.

Anyone else got an alternative take on this?

Steve Crook

No, that's about how I understand it sanndevil.

I think it started off Oop North but is now used all over the place.
In Newcastle they were liable to refer to "Wor Jackie" - a reference to famous Newcastle footballer Jackie Milburn (The "Wor" is dur to the Geordie accent)

sitom, I think it's especially appropriate to use "Our Pet" for Petula Clark because remember that she started off as a child actress on radio and then later on film.

The use of "our Rose" in Keeping Up Appearances would be because Hyacinth is the older sister. Or at least, the one that acts older & takes responsibility for the others.

Steve

Clinton Morgan

On the 'Carrott In Notts' album there is a track entitled, 'Wor Malcom'. Pronounced "Worrrrrr Mallcum!" Same album has a couple of songs 'Bastity Chelt' (full of spoonerisms) and Jake Thackray's 'The Bantam Cock'. Went to Newcastle four years ago, a great city.

Dinnae forget Oor Wullie.

Fellwanderer

Having been brought up in the south east, I never heard the expression but became very used to it when I moved to the North East more years ago than I care to remember. Jack Charlton, Jackie Milburn's nephew, still refers to younger brother Bobby as "Our Kid" when he speaks of him on televsion.

sitom: Bobby and Jack Charlton were both members of England's 1966 World Cup winning football team.

I suspect Hyacinth's use of it is a subtle betrayal of her roots.

I'd agree with others that it is indicative of affection both within the family and beyond and probably explains why I made reference to "Our Jenny" [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wub.gif[/img] in a post a few weeks ago [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/happy.gif[/img]

All the best
FELL

A signature is no substitute for a life

Jim

It's a 'working class' thing Tom! I suppose you will find it hard to grasp the idea of a class system outside of the USA.

There is a variation of this: 'our kid' is another term of endearment. Watch any of 'The Likey Lads' episodes and you will hear "hello Thelma, pet". Ask MarkyB about that one!!!

There are supposed to be no class systems in Britain any more - but believe me, they still exist!

After all, you wouldn't want someone the likes of Rab C. Nesbitt* or Les Battersby**, crashing your cheese and wine party would you?

As I said Tom, it's a working class thing, most probably the Midlands/Northern in origination. That is, anywhere past Northampton. I have no idea when it started though. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif[/img]

* Drunk and a layabout
** Dole scrounger and idiot

Good morning boys.

samkydd

From what I understand it means belonging to one's close family. So if your sister is called Susan and the woman next door is also called Susan, then in conversation "our Susan" would denote that you're talking about your sister rather than the woman next door. Simple but effective.

"...the chairman of Littlewoods stores made a Keynote speech!"

Steve Crook

Show me a country without a class system.

The difference is that now it's taken to be more a matter of money (& celebrity which is thus related) rather than breeding.

Steve

Clinton Morgan

Vox pops television interview with a taxi driver (mid 1990s):

John Major said he wanted Britain to be a classless society. Well he's succeeded. We've got no class.

Here's an interesting pro-class article as far as British television is concerned. http://web.ukonline.co.uk/sotcaa/sotcaa.ht...nt/elitist.html

The class system has given British cinema its own unique style.

From Carry On to Ealing Comedy
From Ken Loach to Richard Curtis
From Derek Jarman to Michael Caine
From Hammer Horror to Television Spin Offs
From George Harrison Marks Soft Porn Movies to Mike Leigh
From Merchant Ivory to Will Hay.

So it seems the class system is bad for real life but good for art.

samkydd

With the old style class system and Royalty of course inter-breeding was more the thing! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]

"...the chairman of Littlewoods stores made a Keynote speech!"

sitom

Thanks to all of you for responding to my query with some interesting ideas. Personally, I like the sound of calling someone "our" as it has a very personal and endearing quality to it. I thought it might have had something to do with class but was unaware of the regionalism of the term. Basically though, it's a term of endearment. I can't think of a similar term that's used here for comparison.
Thanks again for your help.

Tom

Jim

Thank YOU tom for bringing up the subject - I've learned something from it as well!
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Good morning boys.

red squirrel

]Having lived on Wearside (sunny Sunderland) 'pet', used as a term of endearment in the north-east of England, is short for 'petal'. Alternatively 'flower' is used. As for the use of 'our', or 'wor' on Tyneside, its definitely a northern-ism, how far north it starts I couldn't tell you. It may be used in Brum (as per the Jasper Carrott quotes), it's not used in Coventry.

Marky B

Although used as a an affectionate term,I remember when talking with a director of the company owned the club I used to work,I kept calling her "pet" and after a while she said (though in a friendly way) "Mark,do me a favour","Of Course" I said,"Don't call me,pet! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pyth.gif[/img] "
Ta Ta
Marky B [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif[/img]

In the north east,we had a legendary comedian called Bobby Thompson (The Little Waster),whose catchphrase was "The dole is my shepherd,I shall not work" and on stage was dressed in a scruffy jumper,flat cap with a cigarette in his hand. One of his more famous jokes was when on VE Day in London,Bobby Thompson stood on the balcony with the King and Queen,the two Princesses and Churchill and somebody in the Mall asked:"Who's that lot up there with worBobby" [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rotfl.gif[/img]
Old I know [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]
Ta Ta
Marky B [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif[/img]

I once shot an elephant in my pyjamas - how he got in my pyjamas,I'll never know