Vincent

[samkydd]

"So hey, we've got Ray Winstone signed up, let's cobble together some awful screenplay and have lots of shouting and gruffness and a few soap people that the viewer will recognise("Oh look it's what's 'er name off thingy!") plus an actor that always plays a baddie, and put it out on prime time 9pm slot. We've got all the cosmetic and women's products wanting slots in the ad breaks, which we can extend by slipping in a few extra! So Jaqquui and Nikkkki you do a press handout, and Catherine, oh sorry I mean Kattt, can get an interview slot for Ray in The Telegraph! Don't worry about the script I'm sure it'll be alright, DeMilsa and Peers can throw in a few well worn cliches to pad it out!"

I watched Vincent last night and found it to be exactly the same as most other new dramas on TV; characterless, charmless, cold and empty. The plot was just silly, and all the ex-wife stuff has been done to death over the years, as with the stereotypical predictably antagonistic policeman's attitude towards an ex-policeman turned private eye. How did Vincent's assistant get into the changing rooms of a private health club to spy on a member, didn't show you that bit? How many people in big expensive houses are stupid enough to have small panes of glass next to the front door so that private eyes (or burglars) can smash the sugar glass and reach it to open a Yale lock? Why did no one offer First Aid to the victim? Why was the house no longer a crime scene just a few hours after the victim was found close to death, thus allowing the bad guy to return home undetected? Where was he hiding before he got back into the house, oh that's right he was hiding in a close-up everytime he talked on his mobile to Vincent!

Come back Frank Marker and James Hazell, and dare I say it, even Jim Rockford was better than this!

Having soap rejects in the cast didn't help, and Marc Warren's performances are always empty and bland. He was in that awful con man series with Robert Vaughn, which was another badly written and poorly acted load of old bollocks!

Why do I think that the standard of writing over the past ten years has deteriorated to such an extent that our TV dramas are just as crap as our music charts? I'm not asking for perfection but some credibility and effort would be welcomed! It relied purely on Ray Winstone's hard man image to sell this series to the public, and to be fair, his character was the only one with any character. But the gruff Cock-er-ney 'Ardman has also been done to death since the days of Harold Shand, Minder and good old Eastenders where Cock-er-ney "I went to Violet's funeral!" underworld characters pop up everytime the ratings start to drop off!

TV program makers, to use a well worn Cock-er-ney cliche, are " 'Avin a larf!" [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/no.gif[/img]

(Aenima @ Oct 11 2005, 09:36 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> I just loved the way Winstone and that guy from East Enders were trying to out-Cockney each other. [/b]

[Freddy]

</div><div class='quotemain'>How did Vincent's assistant get into the changing rooms of a private health club to spy on a member.[/b]

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blushing.gif[/img]

I feel a Carry On moment approaching . . . .ooohhh errrrr mrs.

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif[/img]

Freddy

[Jackdaw]

I'm surprised you bothered to watch this one Sam.It must have been a triumph for hope over experience,or perhaps you just wanted to wind yourself up!
I managed to avoid it,but nevertheless I feel entirely qualified to give a full opinion.
Don't tell me;Ray held the character in the palm of his hand,turned it this way and that,and finally decided to play it as a Cockney hardman.I expect that Bob Hoskins,for instance,would have played the character in an entirely different way.
This is the type of endless crap that ITV execs are so bullish about when citing the channel's "excellent drama output".No doubt should a latterday Hare,Crisp,Potter or such turn up on their doorstop with a single play masterpiece,he would be told,"Sorry,we're not accepting any un-commisioned work from new authors at the moment".No,they're commisioning hacks to rehash an incredibly narrow range of hackneyed plots tailored to fit their equally narrow list of celebrity repertory players:Green,Quentin,Collins,Clunes,Kemp (Oh No! There's two of 'em) et al.
As you say,this has little to do with good drama, but is merely the exploitation of commercial opportunity dressed in its Sunday best.Unfortunately,our present day audience seems neither to know, or aspire to something better.To make things worse,because of external pressures and a misguided decision to chase ratings,the BBC's drama output is of similar quality.
What a dismal outlook for drama lovers!

Cheers

Jacky

[samkydd]

(jackdaw @ Oct 11 2005, 01:24 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> I'm surprised you bothered to watch this one Sam.It must have been a triumph for hope over experience,or perhaps you just wanted to wind yourself up! I managed to avoid it,but nevertheless I feel entirely qualified to give a full opinion. Don't tell me;Ray held the character in the palm of his hand,turned it this way and that,and finally decided to play it as a Cockney hardman.I expect that Bob Hoskins,for instance,would have played the character in an entirely different way. This is the type of endless crap that ITV execs are so bullish about when citing the channel's "excellent drama output".No doubt should a latterday Hare,Crisp,Potter or such turn up on their doorstop with a single play masterpiece,he would be told,"Sorry,we're not accepting any un-commisioned work from new authors at the moment".No,they're commisioning hacks to rehash an incredibly narrow range of hackneyed plots tailored to fit their equally narrow list of celebrity repertory players:Green,Quentin,Collins,Clunes,Kemp (Oh No! There's two of 'em) et al. As you say,this has little to do with good drama, but is merely the exploitation of commercial opportunity dressed in its Sunday best.Unfortunately,our present day audience seems neither to know, or aspire to something better.To make things worse,because of external pressures and a misguided decision to chase ratings,the BBC's drama output is of similar quality. What a dismal outlook for drama lovers! Cheers Jacky [/b]

I wasn't going to watch it but I've seen so many repeats of dramas and old films recently that I thought I'd watch something new for a change! Unfortunately I made a mistake and I wished I'd done something more productive like tidy the shed or rake the gravel on the drive or something.

I know now that instead of whinging about what crap is dished out to us nightly on telly I've seriously got to do something about it. Either get rid of my telly or write something better, then sleep with a producer's daughter (or the producer), move to Islington, develop a cocaine habit and get it on the telly!

[Fran]

(samkydd @ Oct 11 2005, 02:31 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> I wasn't going to watch it but I've seen so many repeats of dramas and old films recently that I thought I'd watch something new for a change! Unfortunately I made a mistake and I wished I'd done something more productive like tidy the shed or rake the gravel on the drive or something. [/b]

The viewing fayre has been so dire lately, and Vincent was no exception. I was really pleased that I had a migraine last night and switched this awful rubbish full of dullards off and went to bed with a good book instead!
I know what you mean about Marc Warren and as my gran used to say about those types "He's like a bowl of thin stew!"

[smudge]

And I was concerned that I'd missed it... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rotfl.gif[/img]

I wonder if I'll remember to look in on JERICHO...? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif[/img]

SMUDGE

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif[/img]

Another boob. Why did Marc Warren's character happily gave back Vincent's 'bugging gear. He must have known it would have recorded the beating up of his wife. Mind you this is nothing compared to the ridiculous ending of last Sunday's 'Midsomer Murders'. The whole plot hinged on the evidence of the revolver hidden in the inglenook. Are we to believe that the murderer went to all that trouble and then failed to clean off their fingerprints. (One identical twins prints on the muzzle, and the other's on the trigger).

It really gets my back up when we have to endure pathetic story lines like this.

[Fellwanderer]

Somehow, I just get the feeling that I didn't miss much.

FELL
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/innocent.gif[/img]

[samkydd]

(Rennie @ Oct 11 2005, 06:24 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> Another boob. Why did Marc Warren's character happily gave back Vincent's 'bugging gear. He must have known it would have recorded the beating up of his wife. Mind you this is nothing compared to the ridiculous ending of last Sunday's 'Midsomer Murders'. The whole plot hinged on the evidence of the revolver hidden in the inglenook. Are we to believe that the murderer went to all that trouble and then failed to clean off their fingerprints. (One identical twins prints on the muzzle, and the other's on the trigger). It really gets my back up when we have to endure pathetic story lines like this. [/b]

The other boob was that Vincent sent a video tape to the high flying wealthy young yuppie photo text sending ex-boyfriend of his secretary in the designer apartment, a video tape, which he just took out of the envelope and inserted into his VCR! What wealthy gadget freak in a brand new apartment would still own a VCR?

Unfortunately we are crap at TV drama now, because the people who run the industry probably never watch television, they know nothing of life (normal life, not cocooned Virginia Water Range Rover suburbia), they have no common sense and they patronise their audience in the same way that advertising agencies do! The Americans take it seriously and now produce good drama like The Sopranos and 24, whereas all we can produce is the TV drama equivilant of Norway's entry into the Eurovision Song Contest!

We need a few good independents to go out on a limb and steer away from this ex-soap actors' pension scheme crap, and start making credible, interesting, factually correct, entertaining drama with actors who can play characters not just themselves, writers who can write original and imaginative stories and not rehash other people's ideas, and above all else, take some pride in the job! Most of them appear to take as much interest in their work as they would if they were filling shelves at Tesco, so just sack the b*****ds! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[Steve Crook]

(samkydd @ Oct 11 2005, 05:57 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> Unfortunately we are crap at TV drama now [snip] [/b]

There are good British made dramas out there. You just have to be a bit selective in what you watch.
I'd nominate the following for your consideration:
E=mc² (2005)
Casanova (2005)
Not Only But Always (2004)
The Long Firm (2004)
Twenty Thousand Streets Under the Sky (2005)
Fingersmith (2005)
and probably a few others as well.

As there are now more TV channels to show them on, some dramas (and many other programmes) are made just to fill a bit of space in the schedule. But there are still good ones being made.

Steve

[samkydd]

(Steve Crook @ Oct 11 2005, 07:16 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> There are good British made dramas out there. You just have to be a bit selective in what you watch. I'd nominate the following for your consideration: E=mc² (2005) Casanova (2005) Not Only But Always (2004) The Long Firm (2004) Twenty Thousand Streets Under the Sky (2005) Fingersmith (2005) and probably a few others as well. As there are now more TV channels to show them on, some dramas (and many other programmes) are made just to fill a bit of space in the schedule. But there are still good ones being made. Steve [/b]

Well I am being a bit harsh I know, but I only watch TV late in the evening, usually BBC1 or ITV, and to be honest the stuff put out lately has been awful. It's as if they think that all viewers are Morrisons pie eating Sunny Delite swilling track suit wearing morons who will watch anything as long as someone who used to be in Eastenders or Coro is in the cast!

I still remember good stuff like Our Friends in the North, which was way back in 1995!

[Fellwanderer]

(samkydd @ Oct 11 2005, 06:23 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> Well I am being a bit harsh I know, but I only watch TV late in the evening, usually BBC1 or ITV, and to be honest the stuff put out lately has been awful. It's as if they think that all viewers are Morrisons pie eating Sunny Delite swilling track suit wearing morons who will watch anything as long as someone who used to be in Eastenders or Coro is in the cast! I still remember good stuff like Our Friends in the North, which was way back in 1995! [/b]

Was it really that long ago?

I suppose it just goes to show that the real quality is timeless.

FELL
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/innocent.gif[/img]

[Steve Crook]

(samkydd @ Oct 11 2005, 06:23 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> Well I am being a bit harsh I know, but I only watch TV late in the evening, usually BBC1 or ITV, and to be honest the stuff put out lately has been awful. It's as if they think that all viewers are Morrisons pie eating Sunny Delite swilling track suit wearing morons who will watch anything as long as someone who used to be in Eastenders or Coro is in the cast! I still remembur good stuff like Our Friends in the North, which was way back in 1995! [/b]

Well if you only watch BBC1 & ITV then you've only got yourself to blame [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]
They both chase ratings so they do aim programmes at Morrisons pie eating Sunny Delite swilling track suit wearing morons who will watch anything as long as someone who used to be in Eastenders or Coro is in the cast!

After watching the latest episode tonight, I'll add Love Soup (2005) to the list I gave above. That's developing into a very good comedy/drama. But you'll have to exercise your finger on the remote Sam and change channels to BBC2

Steve

[samkydd]

(Steve Crook @ Oct 12 2005, 12:51 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> Well if you only watch BBC1 & ITV then you've only got yourself to blame [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img] They both chase ratings so they do aim programmes at Morrisons pie eating Sunny Delite swilling track suit wearing morons who will watch anything as long as someone who used to be in Eastenders or Coro is in the cast! After watching the latest episode tonight, I'll add Love Soup (2005) to the list I gave above. That's developing into a very good comedy/drama. But you'll have to exercise your finger on the remote Sam and change channels to BBC2 Steve [/b]

You're quite right of course, and I'll have to start buying The Radio Times as well to see what's on, but after a hectic day at the coal face you just want to flop on to a settee in your tracksuit with a glass of Sunny Delite, tuck into your Morrisons pastie and say to the telly, "Entertain me!"

We've got Freeview and cable but there isn't much worth watching for me apart from The Lost Decade films on BBC4, ITV3 repeated Wycliffes etc, and sometimes TCM has something good on at 4 am! The History Channel seems to show perpetual footage of WW2.

But there's no harm in criticising the new stuff that ITV and BBC throw at you, which follows a similar pattern to the cinema. They hype up a programme as they do with a new film a few days before it is broadcast/released, and when you watch it you realise that the trailers they repeated over and over again to entice you to see it in the first place are the only good bits in the whole drama!

I think Lynda La Plante is the Stock, Aitken and Waterman of the television drama industry!

[samkydd]

Well Mrs samkydd was brought up in a family without a television, in fact they were so poor that they were even jealous of the have nots! Consequently when she discovered this marvel of the 20th century she became mesmerised, so much so that she watches all the soaps, Northern ex-soapster gruff people "gritty" dramas, all the hospital ones, Heartbeat, Star Trek, Flog It, property greed shows, Monarch of the Glen, CSI: Miami, CSI: New York, CSI: Prairie Shit Nevada, and just about anything broadcast between 6pm and 11pm.

Fortunately I have a lot of records and CDs.