Ascoyne D'Ascoyne

I really do sympathise with most of your sentiments, Terry. However, I would imagine (no proof) that many people who profess no faith perform valuable services to humanity. And from what you have said I think it's unlikely that you will want to deny that the oppression of many religious regimes has contributed and still does contribute, in no small part, to the circumstances which have turned the world into a vale of tears for many of its inhabitants.
I don't think many people would have a problem with those who hold a set of spiritual beliefs (and if it's of any interest to you, I don't subscribe to Dawkins' materialist philosophy)which they keep largely to themselves; the problem comes when people start to try to impose the (often absurd) dogmas of their own particular brand of religion on to the lives of others.
Some of the results of this could be seen exemplified by the ranting, exhibitionist jackasses who appeared in the programme "The Root of all Evil."

foha80

Of course Jeff,I didn't mean to infer otherwise.The problem that I and probally many others have is that we seem to have become an apologists for religion.
I can't see myself connected in any way to the people who commit atrocities or preach hate in the name of God,yet I know for a fact that people who profess to have a christian faith have bombed their way across britain & Ireland in recent times.
If the question "Is religion the root of all evil" then I feel that the evidence supports that view,but I feel that there should be an intelligent counter argument,the trouble is that I don't feel intelectually capable of making it.Anyone want to try

Ascoyne D'Ascoyne

I certainly can't offer much in the way of intelligence to the debate, but can only say that the way I feel about it is that "It's not God that's the problem, but the way men try to interpret him."
I don't read the Bible much and haven't a clue what Jesus was or if the historical figure who bore his name bore much relationship to the New Testament figure but it seems to me that all the intolerant ranting and raving that we hear from the newly-borns, evangelicals and their like derive, not from any of the sayings or actions attributed to him, but from the writings of St Paul and the scribes of the Old Testament. So the tolerant message of the one who associated with sinners and prostitutes is almost immediately undermined in the Bible by the writings of one who seemed anything but tolerant of human weaknesses. Dawkins mentioned something to this effect in his programme.

People must follow their own religious convictions ( or lack of them) but to to impose their beliefs, for which there is not an ounce of proof, on others as a matter of fact(as has happened throughout recorded history) is an action which cannot be justified. The evil lies in the propensity of certain men to want to dominate and control others, not in the idea of God or spirit. But then, if Dawkins got his way and all teaching of religion was to be banned (in itself a form of control) mankind wouldn't suddenly develop into one great big band of happy brothers united in their study of Darwin's Theory of Evolution.
Here endeth the lesson..kindly drop a tenner into the collection when it comes round.

Steve Crook

Although that might explain the difference in brain cells
Steve

Steve Crook

Remember that Jesus didn't establish the Christian Church. It was done in his name but the work was really done by Paul and the other apostles and I expect they had to make compromises from the beginning. The early church was very good at integrating with existing beliefs. Look at the use of holly, mistletoe and even the yule log and the easter egg. They even adjusted the dates of their festivals to fit in with existing dates of festivals.

Similarly Islam was established by the generation after Mohammed and Judaism (as a religion) was established over a few generations.

What we have in the UK nowadays is really a very mild form of religion, even in the churches. It's not even proper Protestantism when compared to the original as is still to be found in parts of Germany.

Steve

Steve Crook

There is no doubt that religion is a great comfort to many people and not every religious person is an extremist. Many religious people are very good and they do perform great acts in the name of religion. But is it that they are just very good people and would perform such acts even if it wasn't for their religious beliefs?

It reminds me of the "Is there anybody out there?" discussion about alien life in the universe.
It'd be amazing if there was some. But it'd also be amazing if there wasn't.

Steve

foha80

I remember seeing a sign on a church notice board which said:

"If you were put on trial accused of being a Christian,would there be enough evidence to ensure a conviction"

Terry

smudge

I have a personal dilemma with religion. I am horrified when I think of it as that system of control which has lead to so much oppression, persecution and slaughter. Yet I am often in awe of some of the riches that have been brought to the world in the name of God.

SMUDGE

Welcome to my house. Enter freely, and of your own will...