Peter Greenaway - Britmovie

Clinton Morgan · 20-01-2005, 08:10 PM

OK, what do you all think?
The British equivalent of film-makers like early Alain Resnais and late period Jean-Luc Godard?
Someone who tries but more often than not fails but then again at least he tries?
Pretentious and boring?
Derek Jarman was better?
or
I found him pretentious and boring in the eighties but now I'm curious to give him another go?

As for me, I haven't seen all of his output* and I did find 'A Zed and Two Noughts' boring. However I loved, 'The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover', 'Prospero's Books', 'The Falls', 'Drowning By Numbers', '8 1/2 Women' and 'The Pillow Book'. I have not seen 'The Tulse Luper Suitcases Parts 1-3' but the images here look quite interesting:
http://www.petergreenaway.co.uk/tulse1.htm

*I've never seen any Derek Jarman either save for a bit of 'Blue' and his section in the opera movie 'Aria'.

sanndevil · 21-01-2005, 10:07 AM

I haven't forgiven Greenaway for the pretentious A DRAUGHTSMAN'S CONTRACT despite liking COOK THIEF, BELLY OF AN ARCHITECT, ZED, DROWNING. His output is patchy but in my own opinion more watchable than late Godard or Resnais. Godard has become wanky (technical phrase) and his self-referential style drives me nuts.

Like David Lynch, Greenaway is more interested in painting a stylistic picture and less interested in narrative flow. I find Lynch more accessible, more visually appealling than Greenaway, and Lynch's use of recurring motifs (smalltown America, doppelgangers, curtains denoting divide between good and evil etc etc) strikes more of a chord with me. Greenaway strives for the abstract but in doing so I feel he alienates his audience.

Just a personal opinion!

Cheers
Nigel

ollie · 21-01-2005, 10:30 AM

I also love The cook... never checked anything else out yet what would be the next stongest contender to view out of the above mentioned?

"and Lynch's use of recurring motifs (smalltown America, doppelgangers, curtains denoting divide between good and evil etc etc)"

don't forget the ubiquitous FIRE! I'm also a lynch fan nigel.

Clinton Morgan · 21-01-2005, 06:46 PM

'Drowning By Numbers' though it is only on VHS in Britain at the moment. So it might be worth waiting for it to come out on DVD because I think my copy is panned and scanned.

sunofyork · 25-01-2005, 10:07 PM

Is Greenaway pretentious?

Surely that one's way up there with the Pope being Catholic and bears' woodland habits isn't it?

Even so, I agree he conjures up some remarkable images. I'd disagree with Nigel though. I like The Draughtsman's Contract best - somehow a period setting seems to underpin the luscious visuals much better.

Raymond

kenji · 16-01-2007, 10:38 AM

Well, a mixed bag; a bold, quite innovative director with a unique recoginsable style, an interest in a range of art forms (probably sees himself as a modern renaissance man) always looking to push back the boundaries of cinema, while inclined to repeat sometimes irritating and grotesque personal obsessions. A tendency to cold apparently arrogant intellect alongside often rich sumptuous visuals. The finest and most European director from Wales, certainly an asset to British film-making, even if he's steadily been estranged from his audiences.

penfold · 16-01-2007, 05:16 PM

To anyone who hasn't seen it (or not recently) and isn't allergic to Shakespeare, I can recommend Prospero's Books as one of the finest Shakespearean adaptations going - and with the definitive central performance by Gielgud, in his last great role. The play itself is both magical, elegaic and valedictory, as Shakespeares last play (spits out dictionary, sorry) and the film captures all those elements perfectly; a fitting farewell for Gielgud, who had a couple more roles in dross, but this is his last great performance. Go find it - but it's not easy.

amatia · 22-04-2008, 06:26 PM

I too love Prosperos Books, it's truly magical.
The camera (Sacha Vierny,"Last year at Marienbad") is stunning.

I am writing my diploma about "Prospero's Books" and "The Tempest" by Derek Jarman, they are totally different, but have some connections in the background.
(Derek Jarman asked John Gielgud in 1979 to play his Prospero in the beginning, but Gielgud refused, and it is said that the primary idea of Prospero speaking all the lines of the play came from Derek Jarman firstly...though Peter Greenaway claimed that he has never seen Jarman's "The Tempest", there are some visual correlations)

I recommend a double feature of these two
(only because if you like Shakespeares "Tempest", of course:_), it's really interesting.)

20-01-2005, 08:10 PM	#1
Clinton Morgan has no status. Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 158 iTrader: (0)	Peter Greenaway OK, what do you all think? The British equivalent of film-makers like early Alain Resnais and late period Jean-Luc Godard? Someone who tries but more often than not fails but then again at least he tries? Pretentious and boring? Derek Jarman was better? or I found him pretentious and boring in the eighties but now I'm curious to give him another go? As for me, I haven't seen all of his output* and I did find 'A Zed and Two Noughts' boring. However I loved, 'The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover', 'Prospero's Books', 'The Falls', 'Drowning By Numbers', '8 1/2 Women' and 'The Pillow Book'. I have not seen 'The Tulse Luper Suitcases Parts 1-3' but the images here look quite interesting: http://www.petergreenaway.co.uk/tulse1.htm *I've never seen any Derek Jarman either save for a bit of 'Blue' and his section in the opera movie 'Aria'.

21-01-2005, 10:30 AM	#3
ollie has no status. Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: broomhall Posts: 588 Country: iTrader: (0)	I also love The cook... never checked anything else out yet what would be the next stongest contender to view out of the above mentioned? "and Lynch's use of recurring motifs (smalltown America, doppelgangers, curtains denoting divide between good and evil etc etc)" don't forget the ubiquitous FIRE! I'm also a lynch fan nigel. __________________ "Bullseye !!"

16-01-2007, 05:16 PM	#7
penfold is feeling moderate Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Bristol Posts: 3,208 Country: iTrader: (0)	To anyone who hasn't seen it (or not recently) and isn't allergic to Shakespeare, I can recommend Prospero's Books as one of the finest Shakespearean adaptations going - and with the definitive central performance by Gielgud, in his last great role. The play itself is both magical, elegaic and valedictory, as Shakespeares last play (spits out dictionary, sorry) and the film captures all those elements perfectly; a fitting farewell for Gielgud, who had a couple more roles in dross, but this is his last great performance. Go find it - but it's not easy. __________________ Bit of a Bay Window, what??

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21-01-2005, 10:07 AM	#2
sanndevil has no status. Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Streatham SW2 Posts: 387 Country: iTrader: (0)	I haven't forgiven Greenaway for the pretentious A DRAUGHTSMAN'S CONTRACT despite liking COOK THIEF, BELLY OF AN ARCHITECT, ZED, DROWNING. His output is patchy but in my own opinion more watchable than late Godard or Resnais. Godard has become wanky (technical phrase) and his self-referential style drives me nuts. Like David Lynch, Greenaway is more interested in painting a stylistic picture and less interested in narrative flow. I find Lynch more accessible, more visually appealling than Greenaway, and Lynch's use of recurring motifs (smalltown America, doppelgangers, curtains denoting divide between good and evil etc etc) strikes more of a chord with me. Greenaway strives for the abstract but in doing so I feel he alienates his audience. Just a personal opinion! Cheers Nigel

21-01-2005, 06:46 PM	#4
Clinton Morgan has no status. Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 158 iTrader: (0)	'Drowning By Numbers' though it is only on VHS in Britain at the moment. So it might be worth waiting for it to come out on DVD because I think my copy is panned and scanned.

25-01-2005, 10:07 PM	#5
sunofyork has no status. Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 18 iTrader: (0)	Is Greenaway pretentious? Surely that one's way up there with the Pope being Catholic and bears' woodland habits isn't it? Even so, I agree he conjures up some remarkable images. I'd disagree with Nigel though. I like The Draughtsman's Contract best - somehow a period setting seems to underpin the luscious visuals much better. Raymond

16-01-2007, 10:38 AM	#6
kenji has no status. Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wales Posts: 4 Country: iTrader: (0)	Well, a mixed bag; a bold, quite innovative director with a unique recoginsable style, an interest in a range of art forms (probably sees himself as a modern renaissance man) always looking to push back the boundaries of cinema, while inclined to repeat sometimes irritating and grotesque personal obsessions. A tendency to cold apparently arrogant intellect alongside often rich sumptuous visuals. The finest and most European director from Wales, certainly an asset to British film-making, even if he's steadily been estranged from his audiences.

22-04-2008, 06:26 PM	#8
amatia has no status. Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Vienna Posts: 3 Country: iTrader: (0)	I too love Prosperos Books, it's truly magical. The camera (Sacha Vierny,"Last year at Marienbad") is stunning. I am writing my diploma about "Prospero's Books" and "The Tempest" by Derek Jarman, they are totally different, but have some connections in the background. (Derek Jarman asked John Gielgud in 1979 to play his Prospero in the beginning, but Gielgud refused, and it is said that the primary idea of Prospero speaking all the lines of the play came from Derek Jarman firstly...though Peter Greenaway claimed that he has never seen Jarman's "The Tempest", there are some visual correlations) I recommend a double feature of these two (only because if you like Shakespeares "Tempest", of course:_), it's really interesting.)