Michael Winterbottom (is He Any Good?) - Britmovie

Clinton Morgan · 01-09-2005, 03:14 PM

On a Yahoo discussion group the subject of Michael Winterbottom came up. One person thought he was the best English director since Peter Greenaway. Another did not. In any case I think Peter Greenaway is actually Welsh. Now I know one should look before one leaps but often one has suspicions/prejudices. For example " 'The Dukes of Hazzard' movie is going to be rubbish, I'm not going to bother seeing it." or " 'Tideland' looks like it'll be a great movie, after all it is directed by Terry Gilliam." In any case here is what I wrote on the subject of Michael Winterbottom:

Far be it from me to comment on Michael Winterbottom but it is refreshing to see some "Emperor's New Clothes" pointing on this discussion group. Not many people do that nowadays sadly. We all want to be "positive". Michael Winterbottom definitely has his champions (see http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/dir...nterbottom.html ) as does the former scriptwriter of 'Coronation Street' Frank Cottrell Boyce. But whilst I have the "positive" feeling that I should check out more of Michael Winterbottom's films (I have my eye set on 'In This World') I also have the "negative" feeling that Michael Winterbottom has a fantasy of himself. That he is no different to the Tarantino wannabes that have fantasies about themselves (hello there Guy Ritchie).

Whilst an innovative director is two steps forward it appears that Michael Winterbottom is two steps back. He so obviously wants to be the British Lars Von Triers. I read somewhere that Triers had actual sc***ing in his film 'The Idiots'. So after 'The Idiots' (and two other films I have not seen: 'Romance' and 'Intimacy') the movie '9 Songs' is a bit too late. Though I like the idea that you can buy a DVD featuring a close up of a labia being licked in your local Sainsburys.

I read somewhere that '9 Songs' consists of footage of Winterbottom's favourite bands intercut with actual sc***ing. A rip-off of 'The Cure For Insomnia' methinks. I will admit to being a conservative prude but how can a boss make his employees have sex for the good of the company? If you want to speak of cinema in purely business terms. I have no problem with the concept of pornography but this is art-house cinema. Sex isn't a matter of grunt-grunt-poke-poke-ejaculate. Sometimes it's a matter of grunt-grunt-vulnerability-poke-poke-uncertainty-poke-poke-exposing the hitherto locked secrets of one's soul-ejaculate-non-stop crying and confessional. Then again I don't have the same instinctual problem with 'Intimacy'. Why is that? Why do I have a problem with Michael Winterbottom making Margot Stilley and Kieran O Brien have sexual intercourse whereas I do not have the same with Patrice Chereau ordering Mark Rylance and Kerry Fox to perform the beast with two backs. Why? Because I
get the feeling that Michael Winterbottom is an opportunist, that he has a fantasy of himself being a stand-out film director. You can imagine a Guardian journalist typing, " British Cinema is full of cockney gangsters and soppy inarticulate middle-class men falling in love with American women so thank GOD for Michael Winterbottom."

My prejudices about '9 Songs' could be wrong, my prejudices about '9 Songs' could be right. After all nobody would have a go at me if I wrote, "I am excited about Peter Jackson's 'King Kong' whatever flaws it may have it will be an exciting kick-ass movie." As long as one's prejudice about a film (and we all have them from "I'm looking forward to this" to "this is going to be shit, mark my words.") does not become critical opinion everything will be okay. Then again..... http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/2003/02/10/kim_...3_article.shtml

So Michael Winterbottom's next film is about a film director trying to make Tristram Shandy. It's Charlie Kauffman and his 'Adaptation' all over. Once again two steps backward as opposed to two steps forward. Yet another fantasy of being a film director to be reckoned with. "You cannot predict which direction he's going to go next..blah, blah, blah." He is no different to Danny Boyle going out and making films with videotape (the silly f***er can afford proper celluloid)because it looks punk. You worked at the BBC you pillock don't pretend to be a filmmaker who came in from the sidelines. It seems that after making 'The Bourne Supremacy' and 'The Watchmen' Paul Greengrass will sometime in the near future make a film about a Viet Cong ambush and student protests against the Vietnam war called 'They Marched Into Sunlight'. Does he have a need to make this film or is he worried that critics won't see him as a modern day Alan Clarke.

Q:How many Paul Greengrass does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: Barry Sonnenfield

'The Tulse Luper Suitcases' sounds far more innovative than '24 Hour Party People'(the only Winterbottom film I have seen apart from a bit of 'Jude' that bored me) but why don't I read articles (apart from a few on-line ones) lauding "Peter Greenaway's exciting new project". Where were you 'Sight and Sound'? A brief mention in an article about 'The Matrix'? B***er off! I don't think 'Newsnight Review' ever commented on it, not even 'Tulse Luper At Compton Vierney'. Would Peter Greenaway have been given as many plaudits as Michael Winterbottom if he had been a director starting out today? Most definitely. We live in a time where journalists stick their fingers in the air to see where the popular wind is blowing. They don't want to embarrass themselves by making the same "Oasis:Be Here Now" mistake so they praise safe targets (Michael Winterbottom) and condemn easy targets (Ken Russell). Back in the eighties nobody had a problem with saying that Peter Greenaway was a pretentious
arsehole. In fact it made his fans love him even more and now some British journalists are coming round to him. In short they're "catching up."

There may be no difference between myself in my gut-reaction to '9 Songs' and those who picketed 'Monty Python's Life Of Brian' but would Sainsburys stock a British film consisting of man-on-man action?*

However despite my negative pre-judgement of Mr.Winterbottom this quote:
“Is it going to play in multiplexes?” Winterbottom asked regarding In This World. “No, obviously not. Is it going to play anywhere? Probably not. But the point is it will be interesting to do, and if you've got something interesting to do, then why wouldn't you want to do it? I want to do what I want to do rather than what's good for my career.”

makes me like him. But on the other hand I get the feeling he likes my reactionary not-having-seen-it comments on '9 Songs'. "Of course I want people like you to think like that! I want to provoke a reaction!"

I have asterisked some of the profanities as I understand that this sort of language is not tolerated in this forum. Quite right, we must have a little decorum here.

<span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%">*At this point it may appear that I am homophobic. This is a million miles from the truth I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy of those who think actual heterosexual intercourse in a movie is daring but at the same time would not even dare to portray actual male homosexual intercourse. </span>

Wetherby Pond · 05-09-2005, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clinton Morgan@Sep 1 2005, 04:14 PM
'The Tulse Luper Suitcases' sounds far more innovative than '24 Hour Party People'(the only Winterbottom film I have seen apart from a bit of 'Jude' that bored me) but why don't I read articles (apart from a few on-line ones) lauding "Peter Greenaway's exciting new project". Where were you 'Sight and Sound'? A brief mention in an article about 'The Matrix'? B***er off! I don't think 'Newsnight Review' ever commented on it, not even 'Tulse Luper At Compton Vierney'. <div align="right">Quoted post</div>

Sight & Sound did cover it when it played at Cannes in 2003 (see page 18 of the July 2003 issue), but the fact that it has yet to secure British distribution might explain the lack of coverage elsewhere - Newsnight Review only reviews films that are opening within a fortnight or so of their broadcast. (As for the Compton Vierney exhibition, that got a fair amount of coverage - especially given that it was one hell of a schlep out to see it).

I haven't seen it, but it doesn't sound that innovative to me - at least not to anyone familiar with Greenaway's work going back to the 1970s (the major Tulse Luper period) or his more experimental TV work such as the multi-screen A TV Dante. The S&S piece concluded that it provided ample evidence that Greenaway was running out of steam, and this seems to match other opinions I've heard of it.

On the subject of Winterbottom, I adored 24 Hour Party People (which probably made me laugh out loud more than any other film in the past two years), utterly despised I Want You and had zero interest in seeing 9 Songs. But the Tristram Shandy project is near the top of my list of must-sees, not least because that particular novel cannot be filmed conventionally: unless you come up with your own imaginative spin on it, the chances are it'll be incomprehensible.

Clinton Morgan · 05-09-2005, 11:40 AM

I liked 24 Hour Party People too. But unless the Tristram Shandy project is the better film I'm left thinking, "Why bother? Jonze and Kauffman already did it with 'Adaptation'."

I'm like that with most modern films for example "Richard Curtis should give up, he's never going to write a screenplay as romantic as 'I Know Where I'm Going!'" and " I bet 'The Passion of The Christ' is not as good as 'The Last Temptation of Christ' and more importantly, Pasolini's 'The Gospel According To Saint Matthew'."

Of modern British filmmakers I'm more interested in checking out Lynne Ramsay's work. The only Winterbottom movie I am interested in watching is 'In This World'. That might make me a convert (or it might not) but I'd probably still have the feeling (like Lindsay Anderson on David Lean) that Michael Winterbottom is overpraised.

I'm a irregular consumer of S&S so I'll have to check out my back issues to see if I have a July 2003 issue.

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01-09-2005, 03:14 PM	#1
Clinton Morgan has no status. Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 158 iTrader: (0)	On a Yahoo discussion group the subject of Michael Winterbottom came up. One person thought he was the best English director since Peter Greenaway. Another did not. In any case I think Peter Greenaway is actually Welsh. Now I know one should look before one leaps but often one has suspicions/prejudices. For example " 'The Dukes of Hazzard' movie is going to be rubbish, I'm not going to bother seeing it." or " 'Tideland' looks like it'll be a great movie, after all it is directed by Terry Gilliam." In any case here is what I wrote on the subject of Michael Winterbottom: Far be it from me to comment on Michael Winterbottom but it is refreshing to see some "Emperor's New Clothes" pointing on this discussion group. Not many people do that nowadays sadly. We all want to be "positive". Michael Winterbottom definitely has his champions (see http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/dir...nterbottom.html ) as does the former scriptwriter of 'Coronation Street' Frank Cottrell Boyce. But whilst I have the "positive" feeling that I should check out more of Michael Winterbottom's films (I have my eye set on 'In This World') I also have the "negative" feeling that Michael Winterbottom has a fantasy of himself. That he is no different to the Tarantino wannabes that have fantasies about themselves (hello there Guy Ritchie). Whilst an innovative director is two steps forward it appears that Michael Winterbottom is two steps back. He so obviously wants to be the British Lars Von Triers. I read somewhere that Triers had actual sc*ing in his film 'The Idiots'. So after 'The Idiots' (and two other films I have not seen: 'Romance' and 'Intimacy') the movie '9 Songs' is a bit too late. Though I like the idea that you can buy a DVD featuring a close up of a labia being licked in your local Sainsburys. I read somewhere that '9 Songs' consists of footage of Winterbottom's favourite bands intercut with actual scing. A rip-off of 'The Cure For Insomnia' methinks. I will admit to being a conservative prude but how can a boss make his employees have sex for the good of the company? If you want to speak of cinema in purely business terms. I have no problem with the concept of pornography but this is art-house cinema. Sex isn't a matter of grunt-grunt-poke-poke-ejaculate. Sometimes it's a matter of grunt-grunt-vulnerability-poke-poke-uncertainty-poke-poke-exposing the hitherto locked secrets of one's soul-ejaculate-non-stop crying and confessional. Then again I don't have the same instinctual problem with 'Intimacy'. Why is that? Why do I have a problem with Michael Winterbottom making Margot Stilley and Kieran O Brien have sexual intercourse whereas I do not have the same with Patrice Chereau ordering Mark Rylance and Kerry Fox to perform the beast with two backs. Why? Because I get the feeling that Michael Winterbottom is an opportunist, that he has a fantasy of himself being a stand-out film director. You can imagine a Guardian journalist typing, " British Cinema is full of cockney gangsters and soppy inarticulate middle-class men falling in love with American women so thank GOD for Michael Winterbottom." My prejudices about '9 Songs' could be wrong, my prejudices about '9 Songs' could be right. After all nobody would have a go at me if I wrote, "I am excited about Peter Jackson's 'King Kong' whatever flaws it may have it will be an exciting kick-ass movie." As long as one's prejudice about a film (and we all have them from "I'm looking forward to this" to "this is going to be shit, mark my words.") does not become critical opinion everything will be okay. Then again..... http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/2003/02/10/kim_...3_article.shtml So Michael Winterbottom's next film is about a film director trying to make Tristram Shandy. It's Charlie Kauffman and his 'Adaptation' all over. Once again two steps backward as opposed to two steps forward. Yet another fantasy of being a film director to be reckoned with. "You cannot predict which direction he's going to go next..blah, blah, blah." He is no different to Danny Boyle going out and making films with videotape (the silly fer can afford proper celluloid)because it looks punk. You worked at the BBC you pillock don't pretend to be a filmmaker who came in from the sidelines. It seems that after making 'The Bourne Supremacy' and 'The Watchmen' Paul Greengrass will sometime in the near future make a film about a Viet Cong ambush and student protests against the Vietnam war called 'They Marched Into Sunlight'. Does he have a need to make this film or is he worried that critics won't see him as a modern day Alan Clarke. Q:How many Paul Greengrass does it take to change a lightbulb? A: Barry Sonnenfield 'The Tulse Luper Suitcases' sounds far more innovative than '24 Hour Party People'(the only Winterbottom film I have seen apart from a bit of 'Jude' that bored me) but why don't I read articles (apart from a few on-line ones) lauding "Peter Greenaway's exciting new project". Where were you 'Sight and Sound'? A brief mention in an article about 'The Matrix'? Ber off! I don't think 'Newsnight Review' ever commented on it, not even 'Tulse Luper At Compton Vierney'. Would Peter Greenaway have been given as many plaudits as Michael Winterbottom if he had been a director starting out today? Most definitely. We live in a time where journalists stick their fingers in the air to see where the popular wind is blowing. They don't want to embarrass themselves by making the same "Oasis:Be Here Now" mistake so they praise safe targets (Michael Winterbottom) and condemn easy targets (Ken Russell). Back in the eighties nobody had a problem with saying that Peter Greenaway was a pretentious arsehole. In fact it made his fans love him even more and now some British journalists are coming round to him. In short they're "catching up." There may be no difference between myself in my gut-reaction to '9 Songs' and those who picketed 'Monty Python's Life Of Brian' but would Sainsburys stock a British film consisting of man-on-man action? However despite my negative pre-judgement of Mr.Winterbottom this quote: “Is it going to play in multiplexes?” Winterbottom asked regarding In This World. “No, obviously not. Is it going to play anywhere? Probably not. But the point is it will be interesting to do, and if you've got something interesting to do, then why wouldn't you want to do it? I want to do what I want to do rather than what's good for my career.” makes me like him. But on the other hand I get the feeling he likes my reactionary not-having-seen-it comments on '9 Songs'. "Of course I want people like you to think like that! I want to provoke a reaction!" I have asterisked some of the profanities as I understand that this sort of language is not tolerated in this forum. Quite right, we must have a little decorum here. <span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%">*At this point it may appear that I am homophobic. This is a million miles from the truth I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy of those who think actual heterosexual intercourse in a movie is daring but at the same time would not even dare to portray actual male homosexual intercourse. </span>

05-09-2005, 11:40 AM	#3
Clinton Morgan has no status. Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 158 iTrader: (0)	I liked 24 Hour Party People too. But unless the Tristram Shandy project is the better film I'm left thinking, "Why bother? Jonze and Kauffman already did it with 'Adaptation'." I'm like that with most modern films for example "Richard Curtis should give up, he's never going to write a screenplay as romantic as 'I Know Where I'm Going!'" and " I bet 'The Passion of The Christ' is not as good as 'The Last Temptation of Christ' and more importantly, Pasolini's 'The Gospel According To Saint Matthew'." Of modern British filmmakers I'm more interested in checking out Lynne Ramsay's work. The only Winterbottom movie I am interested in watching is 'In This World'. That might make me a convert (or it might not) but I'd probably still have the feeling (like Lindsay Anderson on David Lean) that Michael Winterbottom is overpraised. I'm a irregular consumer of S&S so I'll have to check out my back issues to see if I have a July 2003 issue.