Another bootleg download site.

[Monkeymanbob]

Happened across this little site My link which has an ecclectic choice of movies on it including Tod Slaughters Sweeny Todd, Werewolf of Washington, The Golem and Thomas Edison's Frankenstein (1910)

The prints aren't great, but it's an opportunity to see some classics (and some strange stuff)

[penfold]

# Copyright

# Duration of copyright.

# The 1988 Copyright, Designs and Patents Act states the duration as;



# Films

# 70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the last principal director, author or composer dies. If the work is of unknown authorship: 70 years from end of the calendar year of creation, or if made available to the public in that time, 70 years from the end of the year the film was first made available.



That site is breaking copyright law....just so as you know.

[will.15]

Not necessarily in the United States are they breaking copyright laws. I didn't examine the titles that closely. But many are the usual suspects sold in the US as public domain titles, many of which went into the public domain because they went there under the old copyright rules. There are all sorts of movies that slipped between the cracks. Some possibly may not be public domain if legally challenged, but if a potential copyright holder doesn't take action, they remain in the public domain.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States

[Kitty Whiskers]

What exactly does 'public domain' mean? Does that mean it's legal to download? I see it pop up on eBay from time to time on films people are selling, but don't want to 'go there' in case it's not kosher.

[will.15]

name='Kitty Whiskers' date='06 July 2010 - 08:59 AM' timestamp='1278403154' post='448287']

What exactly does 'public domain' mean? Does that mean it's legal to download? I see it pop up on eBay from time to time on films people are selling, but don't want to 'go there' in case it's not kosher.

It's legal to download if the movie is in the public domain in your country. But there are a lot more movies in the public domain in the US than in the UK apparently. But you are much more likely to face possible legal action downloading a recent movie than a movie sixty years old in the public domain in one region and not in another. I'm not saying you should do it. I've never downloaded anything because my internet connection is too slow.

[Kitty Whiskers]

name='will.15' date='06 July 2010 - 08:15 AM' timestamp='1278404113' post='448293']

It's legal to download if the movie is in the public domain in your country. But there are a lot more movies in the public domain in the US than in the UK apparently. But you are much more likely to face possible legal action downloading a recent movie than a movie sixty years old in the public domain in one region and not in another. I'm not saying you should do it. I've never downloaded anything because my internet connection is too slow.

Is it like songs no longer having copyright after 100 years then?



I'm a big film noir fan and I see hard-to-find things appear from time to time declaring they're 'public domain'. I don't want to be hauled off in cuffs, but I don't want to miss a chance to see a rare classic, either!

[will.15]

If you want to be perfectly safe, a lot of those movies are on youtube. Watching is never a problem. But if it is an American made movie that is in the public domain in the United States and you are getting it from a site based in the United States, there is no chance you have to worry about anything as long as the movie is in the public domain. It is real easy to check. Google the movie with public domain and you'll know. It's more of a problem if it is a European film that is in the PD in the US, but not in Europe. But the real focus in enforcement are in recent movies and major studio classics.

[didi-5]

You can watch most things on the Internet Archive (www.archive.org) the same as you can on YouTube. penfold is quite right to quote copyright but terms are very different in the US where this site originates. And there is a lot of good stuff on there of the YouTube type as well, stage productions done by little societies, etc.

[Kitty Whiskers]

I usually do watch things on YouTube, but every now and then I find something I'd like to have as a keeper but can't find on DVD. The problem with YouTube is that you never know when film companies are going to get their knickers in a knot and demand it be taken off. I might check out Internet Archive.



I suppose the reality is not everything has to be copied. In the days before VCR we just watched a film once and moved on.

[Zlatna]

name='Kitty Whiskers' date='06 July 2010 - 08:59 AM' timestamp='1278421148' post='448414']

I usually do watch things on YouTube, but every now and then I find something I'd like to have as a keeper but can't find on DVD. The problem with YouTube is that you never know when film companies are going to get their knickers in a knot and demand it be taken off. I might check out Internet Archive.



I suppose the reality is not everything has to be copied. In the days before VCR we just watched a film once and moved on.

Anything that is on Youtube, can be permanently archived to your hard drive. There are a number of software tools that will do that. The quality is not great, however.

[Moor Larkin]

name='Kitty Whiskers' date='06 July 2010 - 09:24 AM' timestamp='1278404647' post='448297']I don't want to be hauled off in cuffs,

I'm more concerned about my computer becoming infested by viagra and injected with pornographic virus disease................

[Kitty Whiskers]

name='Zlatna' date='06 July 2010 - 01:12 PM' timestamp='1278421953' post='448418']

Anything that is on Youtube, can be permanently archived to your hard drive. There are a number of software tools that will do that. The quality is not great, however.

I've heard that. Is there software to join all the bits up together again? 9 minute bites could be a little annoying if you're watching something the length of Gone With The Wind.

[Zlatna]

name='Kitty Whiskers' date='06 July 2010 - 09:23 AM' timestamp='1278422583' post='448422']

I've heard that. Is there software to join all the bits up together again? 9 minute bites could be a little annoying if you're watching something the length of Gone With The Wind.

Yes there is also software that will join the pieces back together. I have no idea how good it is, or how easy it is to use, because pretty much everything I've sucked from Youtube is a short clip anyway, so I've never had many multiple pieces I've wanted to join back together.

[robotoid97]

All of the titles I saw on the web site were public domain so should be fine for the US and more than likely abroad as well. Many of these titles (and more) are in boxed sets put out by a company called Mill Creek so if a majority are of interest this may be another option.



I bought several of the largest Mill Creek movie boxed sets some time ago & they have Horror, Mystery, Family Classics and Western sets. Each set has appx 60 DVDs containing 250 films and come packed in very large sized foil covered boxes.



The retail cost is $99 per set but I bought the Horror Set, Family Classics Set and Mystery Set on sale for $24 a set, the quality is fair to good but 750 films for $72 is appx 10 cents a film so I'm not complaining and am pleased with the purchase.



I have a listing somewhere of what is in each boxed set so if anyone is interested I would be more than happy to post them.

[Steve Crook]

name='robotoid97' date='06 July 2010 - 04:23 PM' timestamp='1278429795' post='448493']

All of the titles I saw on the web site were public domain so should be fine for the US and more than likely abroad as well.

Not so. The US probably has the most relaxed laws about copyright in the world. That's good for the general public but it's very bad for anyone wanting to make a living from what they have created.



If copyright isn't renewed regularly in the US then something falls into public domain. This isn't the case in most of the rest of the world where copyright is defined either for a fixed term from when it was created or as a certain number of years after the death of the last creator. The duration of the copyright can be different for films, TV shows, books, music and other things). It can also depend on when it was created and the law in force at the time and if subsequent laws were made to apply retrospectively.



To add to the complications, if a work is created in one country like the UK and is then published/released in the States, the copyright of the version released in the States falls under US law but the copyright of the original version remains under UK law.



The final complication is that there are a LOT of web sites and sellers on eBay, Ioffer and similar places who claim that an item is in public domain - when it isn't



Steve

[Monkeymanbob]

I dont know if it makes a difference, but the movies are streamed.

[didi-5]

$99 for a Mill Creek set?!



They're worth maybe $20 at most. Terrible prints in the main but perhaps the only way of seeing some stuff. I bought a few because they had episodes of Studio One (classic 1950s TV).



Edit: just realized you're talking about their massive sets. I only have the 50 film ones for musicals, dark crimes, and historic classics.

[will.15]

name='Steve Crook' date='06 July 2010 - 07:40 PM' timestamp='1278441654' post='448586']

Not so. The US probably has the most relaxed laws about copyright in the world. That's good for the general public but it's very bad for anyone wanting to make a living from what they have created.



If copyright isn't renewed regularly in the US then something falls into public domain. This isn't the case in most of the rest of the world where copyright is defined either for a fixed term from when it was created or as a certain number of years after the death of the last creator. The duration of the copyright can be different for films, TV shows, books, music and other things). It can also depend on when it was created and the law in force at the time and if subsequent laws were made to apply retrospectively.



To add to the complications, if a work is created in one country like the UK and is then published/released in the States, the copyright of the version released in the States falls under US law but the copyright of the original version remains under UK law.



The final complication is that there are a LOT of web sites and sellers on eBay, Ioffer and similar places who claim that an item is in public domain - when it isn't



Steve

The revisions in the copyright law 1n 1978 puts the United States closer in conformity with the rest of Europe. Movies that have fallen into the public domain did so for the most part under the old law. The revision wasn't retroactive.



It is true I have seen movies listed on ebay and ioffer as being in the public domain when they aren't. A seller on ebay was (still is?) selling in one package William Powell's four Philo Vance movies, claiming they were all in the public domain. The three creaky early talkie ones are not, but the best in the series and the last, The Kennel Murder Case, is. Go figure.

[Steve Crook]

name='will.15' date='06 July 2010 - 09:39 PM' timestamp='1278448769' post='448636']

The revisions in the copyright law 1n 1978 puts the United States closer in conformity with the rest of Europe. Movies that have fallen into the public domain did so for the most part under the old law.

I'm glad to hear it, it's about time. The old law was terrible for creative people

The revision wasn't retroactive.

That's a shame, but any change in the law is better than nothing

It is true I have seen movies listed on ebay and ioffer as being in the public domain when they aren't. A seller on ebay was (still is?) selling in one package William Powell's four Philo Vance movies, claiming they were all in the public domain. The three creaky early talkie ones are not, but the best in the series and the last, The Kennel Murder Case, is. Go figure.

Under the old law the copyright holder had to renew the copyright every so often. It sounds like they forgot to renew one.



That old law meant that it was just about impossible to tell if something was still in copyright. Did the copyright holder remember to renew it every time it came due? Who can tell.



That's why so many Americans could get away with claiming things were in public domain for so long



Steve

[robotoid97]

name='Steve Crook' date='06 July 2010 - 02:40 PM' timestamp='1278441654' post='448586']

Not so. The US probably has the most relaxed laws about copyright in the world. That's good for the general public but it's very bad for anyone wanting to make a living from what they have created.



If copyright isn't renewed regularly in the US then something falls into public domain. This isn't the case in most of the rest of the world where copyright is defined either for a fixed term from when it was created or as a certain number of years after the death of the last creator. The duration of the copyright can be different for films, TV shows, books, music and other things). It can also depend on when it was created and the law in force at the time and if subsequent laws were made to apply retrospectively.



To add to the complications, if a work is created in one country like the UK and is then published/released in the States, the copyright of the version released in the States falls under US law but the copyright of the original version remains under UK law.



The final complication is that there are a LOT of web sites and sellers on eBay, Ioffer and similar places who claim that an item is in public domain - when it isn't



Steve

Hi Steve - thank you for the reply and I did not realize there was such a difference between European and US copyright & what is legally a public domain film.



All the film titles on the list I looked at on the website linked above were PD films in the US and there are not just ebay/ioffer sellers selling them but also many US DVD companies such as Mill Creek, Infinity, Alpha, Millennium, etc, selling them individually or in box sets from their company sites as well as Best Buy, Amazon, etc...



Just curious were there any film titles that you noticed on the website that were PD in the US but no so in the UK or Europe?



Also if a Brit or European purchased a Mill Creek or Infinity set from the company and it turned out one of the titles was PD in the US but not in Europe or the UK would the buyer get in trouble or would the company be at fault even if the DVD was region 1 intended for US sales only?