Scene-Stealing Animals in Films

[bruiser15]

Captain C.W.R. Knight, the falconer and austringer in I Know Where I'm Going! had "manned" a Golden Eagle which also appeared in that film. He toured the world with "Mr Ramshaw" and wrote a few books about his experience. Captain Knight was the uncle of actor Esmond Knight who appeared in quite a few of Michael Powell's films from 1931 - 1972.

I suspect that the golden eagle that we see in The Edge of the World was also Mr Ramshaw. When we see him pounce on the rabbit near the beginning of the film the falconer's jesses (leather straps on his legs) are visible. It would make more sense to use a trained eagle that would respond to a few basic requests rather than waiting for the chance to get a shot of a wild eagle.

Captain Knight's daughter, Jean Knight, trained the foxes that were used in Powell's film Gone to Earth so there was quite a long relationship between Powell and the Knight family and he often made use of their experience with various animals.

Esmond Knight's daughter Rosalind Knight also appeared in a few of Powell's films

Steve

Having said I would stay out of the thread, here I am , but only to say thanks Steve for the fascinating pieces of information, I'm sure I used to have a copy of All British Eagle by Captain C.W.R. Knight must see if I can find it again or failing that buy another.

[cornershop15]

Sorry, Steve, but I have to defend myself.

Why you [bruiser15] are concentrating on the cruelty to animals aspect is beyond me. That was in a separate post, in relation to Straight on Till Morning. Last night's response to yourself and Captain Waggett was about something totally different, which appears to have gone over your heads.

Again, my point was that someone I used to be on very friendly terms with in the early stages of my time here has, along with the others I mentioned, NOT been so friendly for quite some time (did you not read that bit?) I'm just curious to know why.

The most significant thing in this, bruiser, and the reason for the wagging finger to the aptly-named Captain Waggett is the time it took for the second post to appear. Have you looked at that three times as well? I submitted the thread at 3.49PM, and finished editing three minutes later.

The Captain posted at 3.57, and couldn't possibly have paid much/any attention to what I'd done (which took a lot of effort, as stated), the response being that immediate, leading me to think all that was read was the thread title. An observation based on past history (see below) and the reason I used the word "disrespectful". But you seem to be under the misguided impression that it was a reply to my post:

The Captain was just showing via a bit of compare and contrast how it's fate linked with that of poor Tinker

Really? I can't imagine there was time as she (I still keep thinking it's a bloke) bypassed that, pdq, and went straight ahead with her own example, which I have seen, long ago. Whether it's because my post was too long I don't know but it is so evident that she didn't read it.

This is ultimately between me and The Captain, who claims to be "baffled" but may understand why I've felt "rebuffed", to use your expression, as it's happened a few times. The most memorable, from my point of view, was at the http://www.britmovie.co.uk/forums/as...r-maddern.html thread, which I revived 16 months after the last contribution. If you'd care to look at the times posts 7 and 8 were posted you will see that my two-page upload appeared at 6.40PM and Captain Waggett's 'response' was at 6.44.

This again shows that my effort was not only unappreciated but somewhat resented. "Why bother with Cornershop's TVTimes article when you can read Victor Maddern's obituary in The Times" is the way I interpreted it, less than five minutes after I posted. And it's been a similar story here. It can't be coincidence.

Sorry it's turned out this way, Captain. And we used to get on so well! If it's because I'm even more serious and sensitive than I was before I joined then I apologise. Let's get back to animals, shall we? At least we're on the same wavelength with that.

[Steve Crook]

Having said I would stay out of the thread, here I am , but only to say thanks Steve for the fascinating pieces of information, I'm sure I used to have a copy of All British Eagle by Captain C.W.R. Knight must see if I can find it again or failing that buy another.

Capt Knight appeared in a few newsreel clips as well. He was quite the showman.

But seeing him in I Know Where I'm Going! many people don't realise he wasn't really an actor. He was just playing himself.

There are a few good gags in that film that only people who have done any falconry tend to appreciate.
One is when he walks past a falcon on the block with a rabbit hanging out of his bag and then acts surprised when the falcon snaffles it.
Another is when he casts off the falcon in a high wind, such a high wind that it doesn't go anywhere and just hovers above his fist.
Then when it does manage to get away a bit he swings the lure to call it back - while he's standing next to a big bush! Of course the lure gets tangled up in the bush

Steve

[bruiser15]

Defend yourself against what? I don't think anyone has been attacking you in anyway. I don't like rudeness that is all

I took your offence to be in connection with CaptainW mentioning the fate of Tinker when you ask for it not to be divulged,

Later, when alone with his 'best friend', he takes out his revenge in the most sickening way, which I'd rather not describe and hope no-one else will. Suffice to say, this had a terrible effect on me when I watched the film last week, but I will still treasure the happier moments, as included here, and look forward to posting more later.

turns out you are offended by the speed of the post, and the fact that you have seen it before. From that you suggest that the Captain is slighting you and not for the first time. I don't think anyone is trying to slight you and feel sorry that you think the members of BritMovie would.

I enjoy your threads on the different strands of ephemora in films, magazines, books etc, but often don't post for fear that I breach some rules of posting or design which you adhere to. Now speed of post and if you've seen them before are stacked against me.

As I said before, I am out of this thread and will admire the others from afar for fear of causing offence.

[Steve Crook]

Nobody has a right to expect any post to be read or responded to. We put our thoughts out there. If anyone does choose to read them or respond to them, that's a bonus. If nobody responds that doesn't mean that anybody is slighting you. Maybe they just felt that you had covered a subject so well and so completely that there was nothing more that they could add.

As for the speed of response, your first post in this thread is quite short. Most people would be able to read that in a minute or two leaving plenty of time to compose a response. But even if Capt W. didn't read it and was just adding her own thoughts about the subject, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that either.

Steve

[TimR]

The reason I became involved in this thread was the mention of Michael Powell's interest in Birds of Prey, from which I duly posted a capture of my own from The Edge of The World. Raptors and their position within the eco-systems of Scotland being an interest of mine. You see my trade/profession/job is the care of animals both domestic and wild, both as a farmer and countryside ranger. Cruelty to animals in any form is vile. ...

Captain C.W.R. Knight, the falconer and austringer in I Know Where I'm Going! had "manned" a Golden Eagle which also appeared in that film. He toured the world with "Mr Ramshaw" and wrote a few books about his experience. Captain Knight was the uncle of actor Esmond Knight who appeared in quite a few of Michael Powell's films from 1931 - 1972.

I suspect that the golden eagle that we see in The Edge of the World was also Mr Ramshaw. When we see him pounce on the rabbit near the beginning of the film the falconer's jesses (leather straps on his legs) are visible. It would make more sense to use a trained eagle that would respond to a few basic requests rather than waiting for the chance to get a shot of a wild eagle.

Captain Knight's daughter, Jean Knight, trained the foxes that were used in Powell's film Gone to Earth so there was quite a long relationship between Powell and the Knight family and he often made use of their experience with various animals.

Esmond Knight's daughter Rosalind Knight also appeared in a few of Powell's films

Steve

Interesting posts. I will be watching The Edge of the World again this weekend as a result.

[cornershop15]

Apologies to Tim for my going back to earlier posts. This is my final word about the unhappy exchanges that have robbed my enthusiasm for this thread (it's taken this long to gather my thoughts). First and foremost, I'm glad bruiser finally understood the reasons why I was so affected and will still contribute.

I don't know what you meant by this being a "personal" thread (even 'Illness and Death' was designed for us to let off steam), but increasingly feel that a lot of what I say or do here is either not to others' liking or over their heads. Therefore, I am probably better off keeping things to myself with things like 'Unnoticed Actors and Actresses' and, for all it was worth, the Straight on Till Morning posts.

In a way, they've ended up being "personal" because there's no-one else to say "Yes, I remember Frank Tregear (or) Ingrid Sylvester!", or, for those who've never seen him before, "Doesn't Tinker look cute!". It looks like it's not going to happen for me. Most of my work here feels like it belongs in the Off-Topic Discussion section anyway, despite generally being connected to British films and television.

I hope you'll still post at this thread, bruiser, and that we can make our peace. You are bound to be here a lot longer than me. I give myself six months to a year, if only to complete what I've set out to do for the last six months to a year (there is a lot of unfinished business following commitments to my mother and safeguarding the house). Please don't "remove (your)self" from this thread. I'm more than capable of doing that - just as I did with 'Name That Face'.

Cornershop

Maybe they just felt that you had covered a subject so well and so completely that there was nothing more that they could add.

If I had a pound for everyone who said that, etc. Is this all people can say to me these days? Even my post at Moira Lister's place didn't receive a follow up.

As for the speed of response, your first post in this thread is quite short. Most people would be able to read that in a minute or two leaving plenty of time to compose a response.

Please don't insult my intelligence, Steve. A lot of threads start with a simple link, or "Any thoughts?" about a certain actor or programme. That's short! It took ages just to select the captures let alone think of the descriptions (something that does not come easy). I'd hope it would take longer than "a minute or two" to read/look at. As for myself, I always pay close attention to the opening posts of threads, even those I've never contributed to, usually Obituaries.

The reason for my dedication was because I thought you felt bad about accidentally deleting the first version, which I managed to save. But the sad and unexpected turn of events has made me regret doing it all again.

[TimR]

..This is my final word about the unhappy exchanges that have robbed my enthusiasm for this thread (it's taken this long to gather my thoughts). ...

I hope you will remain on the thread. This is turning into one of the most enjoyable and informative threads I have seen here in a while. I love dogs - and I know just about nothing about birds - and I also love Powell and Pressburger, and even those P&P films that I don't love, I do respect and admire, so it is a very nice combination thus far.

[Steve Crook]

I hope you will remain on the thread. This is turning into one of the most enjoyable and informative threads I have seen here in a while. I love dogs - and I know just about nothing about birds - and I also love Powell and Pressburger, and even those P&P films that I don't love, I do respect and admire, so it is a very nice combination thus far.

Thinking about Powell's dogs Erik & Spangle and their roles in the various films, there is also a single cocker spaniel seen in Lazybones (there are a whole pack of dogs racing through the house in the penultimate scene), An Airman's Letter to his Mother, Peeping Tom & The Queen's Guards
But I'm not sure which ones they are (Erik, Spangle or the later Johnson) or even if it's not Powell's dog.

BTW The spaniel seen in Luna de Miel (Honeymoon) isn't one of Powell's. It is Rosita Sergovia's dog "Lucky".


And while we're looking at animals in P&P films, don't forget the white cat, "Snowball" in The Small Back Room.
When a bunch of us saw Kathleen Byron at the BFI she told us a nice tale about the cat.

We'd often wondered about the white cat (Snowball) that we see in Sammy's rooms in SBR. Who's cat was he meant to be? The fact that he had a food bowl in Sammy's room doesn't mean that he was definitely Sammy's. I know that at least 3 of my neighbours have bowls they use to feed my cats when they go a-visiting.

Could the cat be any sort of clue as to the relationship between Sammy & Susan?

So anyway, one of the stories Kathleen told was that it was HER cat (in real life).

Someone had said that they wanted a cat in the film & Kathleen had said that she had one that could do it. So the studio said they'd send a car for the cat !! No wonder they ran out of money :)

But just before the car was due to arrive Kathleen couldn't find the cat anywhere. It had run out the back and into some garages and got all mucky !!

So when they arrived at the studio, while Kathleen was being made up, they gave the cat a complete wash & grooming session. Kathleen said she hardly recognised him when she arrived on set. They'd made him even whiter by adding talcum powder to his fur - he spent most of the film trying to lick it off !!

Steve

[TimR]

Very nice story. Kathleen Byron sounds like a charming woman; are there any recorded interviews with her? I still haven't seen The Small Back Room. I have gotten lax in my film viewing - it's back at the top of the list.

One of the first thoughts that occurred to me when I was watching the great Powell and Pressburger films was that that they loved the dogs that were part of the films: the way they were presented and lighted and the references to them. "I always hoped there would be dogs" - marvelous. And I am in complete agreement.

[Steve Crook]

Very nice story. Kathleen Byron sounds like a charming woman; are there any recorded interviews with her? I still haven't seen The Small Back Room. I have gotten lax in my film viewing - it's back at the top of the list.

There's a short interview with Kathleen on the brilliant documentary Cameraman: The Life and Work of Jack Cardiff. That should be in everyone's collection.

There's also a harder to find documentary all about Kathleen in the BBC's 10x10 series called "Remembering Sister Ruth". Just 10 minutes, but very good.

Do watch The Small Back Room. It reunites Sister Ruth and Mr. Dean (Kathleen & David Farrar)

Steve