Political Correctness. Turn on? or a turn off?

[alan french]

Hi,
With political correctness, or, incorrectness being rightly or wrongly, rife these days; could it be a turn on or turn off for producers and writers in the film industry? And of course, television and radio?

Do people feel frustrated over it and do not bother to write scripts, for example, if they are told that they cannot say this, or that, because it is not politically correct?

I am sure I could go on further, but I am interested in what you have to say.

Alan French speaking live from The Hemel Hempstead Library, handing over to Britmovie members.

Roger. Over. Out.

Alan French.

[batman]

''Political correctness'' is a strange beast these days. It seems to exist in it's own little world which is populated by 'officials' in both public and private organisations (who apparently feel it is the 'right' thing to do) and by a particular type of 'journalist' who is paid to stir up a certain amount of shite. I don't actually know anybody in the 'real world' who takes it seriously any more. With regard to scripts, I use Life on Mars as an example. If it had been submitted simply as a drama about a 70s cop who is sexist, racist and of dubious honesty I doubt it would have been made. However, add a time travel element so that 21st Century Man can express his disgust at such oafish behaviour and the '-ists' become accepted by a modern audience. The irony is, of course, that Gene Hunt was the most popular character in the series because the majority of the audience liked and identified with him and not our outraged time travelling friend.

[Moor Larkin]

could it be a turn on or turn off

[Rowdon]

I use Life on Mars as an example. If it had been submitted simply as a drama about a 70s cop who is sexist, racist and of dubious honesty I doubt it would have been made. However, add a time travel element so that 21st Century Man can express his disgust at such oafish behaviour and all the '-isms' become accepted by a modern audience. The irony is, of course, that Gene Hunt was the most popular character in the series because the majority of the audience liked and identified with him and not our outraged time travelling friend.

I don't think that was ironic - I think it was probably a given when they wrote the script. But it is an interesting example, as you say, because it highlights the difference between then and now: Gene Hunt is fine as a character (he's not evil, just loudmouthed, as many of us are) but these days there is a character opposite him to say "Oh for goodness' sake!". I don't see how that is a bad thing (I know you weren't suggesting that it was, but some people seem to think it is). Could you make Love They Neighbour these days? I imagine so, if it was funny enough, but there would probably be more characters telling Eddie where to get off (as there were in the original, but not strongly enough). That classic scene in The Likely Lads where Terry reels off why he doesn't trust anybody from any other country, or even any other region ... and ends up saying "Come to think of it there's people in me own street I can't stand!" is brilliant comedy, and could easily be written today - why not? There would probably be more bubble-bursting taunts from Rodney Bewes these days, but that's not because we are worried about political correctness, but just because most people are more aware and feel more uncomfortable with someone talking nonsense like that. There's that scene at the beginning of Violent Playground when Stanley Baker asks why his colleague doesn't hit his wife when she causes a fuss: "Why don't you just wallop her? Why don't you just wallop her?" he repeats. The colleague finally says something like "Well - she's twice your size!", whereas now he would say "And why don't you just grow up?" and we would side with the colleague against Baker, which was not the intention at the time. (Nobody was supposed to take the "wallop" suggestion seriously for a minute - it was a joke between the married bloke and the bachelor, but nowadays, that joke would make the bachelor look so uncaring and nasty that it would spoil him as a hero ... again, is that new sensitivity a bad thing?).

The problem with questions like this - is PC good or bad? - is that nobody agrees what is meant by PC. Particularly not people on opposite sides of the argument. If I thought that certain people were actually not writing racist/sexist characters because they would be censored, I'd be against the censorship, but sometimes I think that anti-PC people simply don't want TV writing to extend in any direction at all, and are waiting fro the day when everybody throws up their arms and says "OK - we give in! The world was freer and there was less censorship and comedy on TV was better when you were young! That was the best time! We admit it!!". And that's not going to happen because TV comedy has changed, pop music has changed, telecommunications have changed, transport has changed, human rights have changed etc. etc. These things happen.

[Moor Larkin]

human rights have changed etc. etc. These things happen.

Maybe they're not so fundamental as we thought..........

[Steve Crook]

Hi,
With political correctness, or, incorrectness being rightly or wrongly, rife these days; could it be a turn on or turn off for producers and writers in the film industry? And of course, television and radio?

What do you mean by "political correctness"? Where do you see examples of it?
As Rowdon said, everyone's definition of it seems to be different
We can't really discuss it until we agree what it is that we're talking about

Steve

[Mr Sloane]

until we agree what it is that we're talking about

Steve

Well that will be a first !

[Rowdon]

Maybe they're not so fundamental as we thought..........

Very true. Scary, huh? I did mean that there are more human rights now, but it seems that they can be rolled back as well, which is sad.

[sidney bliss]

It is a strange beast indeed - for example - could you make a film about 2 middle aged men going camping with their hard to get girlfriends, end up chasing schoolgirls making lewd suggestions, spying on them through the hole in the shower wall. Possibly not, yet Carry On Camping still gets airtime at peak viewing times on ITV 2. Thankfully!

[Steve Crook]

It is a strange beast indeed - for example - could you make a film about 2 middle aged men going camping with their hard to get girlfriends, end up chasing schoolgirls making lewd suggestions, spying on them through the hole in the shower wall. Possibly not, yet Carry On Camping still gets airtime at peak viewing times on ITV 2. Thankfully!

Why do you think that a film like that couln't be made? Haveen't you ever seen any of the American slacker movies? The only thing that prevents similar films being made here is taste, nothing to do with PC

Steve

[Rowdon]

Why do you think that a film like that couln't be made? Haveen't you ever seen any of the American slacker movies? The only thing that prevents similar films being made here is taste, nothing to do with PC

Steve

Got to agree with Steve here. Sidney has pretty much given the plot for Hangover ... or was it Grown Ups? Or American Pie?

[Heinrich]

Being politically correct is nothing more than using good manners.

[DB7]

Got to agree with Steve here. Sidney has pretty much given the plot for Hangover ... or was it Grown Ups? Or American Pie?

The Inbetweeners movie slots into the same genre but it's not middle-aged guys chasing schoolgirls. These are sorta gross-out movies involving puking etc whereas the Carry Ons were more seaside postcard humour.

[Moor Larkin]

Old-style political correctness was called censorship wasn't it?

Then an item on Arthur Watkins, secretary of the British Board of Film Censors. He talks of the work of the Board of Film Censors. and the qualities required of a Film Censor. (Various close-ups and shots of Watkins talking to camera) He finishes with a parody of Kipling's 'If'.
Starts 4 minutes in........
FILM FANFARE - NO 10 - British Pathé

Jock MacGegrors' promotion of *starlets* careers, that is outlined in the first four minutes of this clip, might seem a tad strange nowadays too.......

[faginsgirl]

Watching Rising damp today on ITV3 (I think!) it struck me that the way they spoke to and about Phillip, they wouldn`t do it now, and what about Corporal Jones`s constant fuzzy wuzzy references shown on BBC2? They SHOW these programmes now but would I sure they wouldn`t make them now with the same unPC dialogue.

Although if Love thy neighbour appeared on our screens I`m SURE the PC Brigade would have something to say. What most people don`t get is that they were made with a view of exposing the ignorance of the characters giving out the racist comments, they weren`t made to take the water out of ethnic minorities. Jack Smethurst has been interviwed saying that about Love thy neighbour.

[GRAEME]

Watching Rising damp today on ITV3 (I think!) it struck me that the way they spoke to and about Phillip, they wouldn`t do it now, and what about Corporal Jones`s constant fuzzy wuzzy references shown on BBC2? They SHOW these programmes now but would I sure they wouldn`t make them now with the same unPC dialogue.

Although if Love thy neighbour appeared on our screens I`m SURE the PC Brigade would have something to say. What most people don`t get is that they were made with a view of exposing the ignorance of the characters giving out the racist comments, they weren`t made to take the water out of ethnic minorities. Jack Smethurst has been interviwed saying that about Love thy neighbour.

One reason they wouldn't make references like that today, is that the idea of multiculturalism isn't novel in itself any more. It was still unusual to see black faces on TV in the early seventies - no more. Today, Eddie Booth wouldn't be representing the mildly bigoted die-hards of the white working class - he'd be an out and out racist nut! The context has changed. People with Rigby's views were laughable back then - but you'd have to be deranged to say that stuff now!

[Rowdon]

What most people don`t get is that they were made with a view of exposing the ignorance of the characters giving out the racist comments, they weren`t made to take the water out of ethnic minorities.

But if "most people don't get" it, then it's failed, hasn't it? It should have been rewritten.

I don't think there's any point in denying that some of the laughs in Love Thy Neighbour were because of Eddie's racist epithets. Not all of them, but some of them. If it had been solely anti Eddie and pro Bill (Rudolph Walker), constantly showing Eddie up as an idiot, then racists wouldn't have liked it, and they did. And when I say racists here, I mean 70s racists; not BNP supporting 2000s neo-Nazis, but ordinary people facing a new situation which they railed against, and then got used to. As Graeme says, you can't compare the 70s to now; not the comedy, and not the attitudes. Eddie took every opportunity to use a nasty synonym for Black or African - every chance he had - but that didn't make him a fascist or a bad person: there are plenty of moments in Love Thy Neighbour where it's taken for granted that he and Bill get along OK, that the insults are just decoration, and that the real battle is - as always - the husbands against their wives (who also get along well) ... But can you imagine trying to write a character these days who peppered all of his comments with this or that racist epithet but was still supposed to be sympathetic? It couldn't be done, but not because of "the PC brigade" ... it wouldn't work because we are now in a different place. Of course Love Thy Neighbour could be rewritten ... but what would it be about? A family who didn't get along with their neighbours because they were black? Difficult tp pitch these days, I'd imagine.

The question about Jones' use of "fuzzy-wuzzies" is a different one ... but as Dylan Thomas said, "Someone is boring me, and I think it's me."

[faginsgirl]

I agree it couldn`t/wouldn`t be done today. Whatever the intentions of the writers it shows a divide, and thankfully we`ve moved on from that.

[alan french]

Hi,
Just tuned in. But I must say, what interesting views have been said so far. However, if someone wishes to be an author or scriptwriter, could PC put them off? And would they try another profession? Has it actually happened? And if so, have we missed out on talent?

While I am on, refering to an earlier comment, I never know what I am talking about.

Alan French

[Sgt Sunshine]

Cheers.....mines a Tuborg...
Sgt S