Yanks don't like when Brit films win the academy awards ? - Britmovie

Dear Jane · 27-02-2004, 06:28 AM

When you visit IMDB, you'll surprise that Oscar-winning films like Chariots of Fire, Gandhi, The Killing Fields and Hwnry V(1989)are forgottable. 90's films which get nominations like Secrets and Lies, Remains of The Day, The Crying Game and Goshford Park are underrated if you compare with The American nominations. They hate films like Lawrence of Arabia and The English patient as they are slow-paced and boring. But they praise Spielberg's four-hours art-house Schindler's List.When comedy that enters the nomination like Four Weddings, The Full Monty and Shakespeare in Love, they say that the films are not that good because they are comedy ones. Many americans say that Billy Elliot is crap but Hollywood actually never makes a down-to-earth like other countries do. If you check IMDB top 250, it'd rather put the hollywood version of Irish and Scottish like The Quiet Man and Braveheart rather than In The Name of Father. The british film that americans consider the best is The Third Man because it has nothing to do with "britishness" and using Hollywood legend Orson Wells (despite the novel's writer and the director were UK. There is no Powell's film in top 250 and Hitchock's favorite film certainly Psycho rather than 39 Steps. Do you think The Godfather deserves #1 (it's painful and depressing anyway).
Perhaps British films don't need nominations for best picture and going back to the category of foreign films like what Golden Globe did long time ago with Romeo&Juliet and A Passage to India.

Yvonne · 27-02-2004, 08:59 AM

. The british film that americans consider the best is The Third Man because it has nothing to do with "britishness"

I found this very interesting posting, and there are some valid points in it, but I'm taking up the point which I quote as an example of how different cultures may have a different point of view over the same thing. "The Third Man" in my opinion, is almost entirely about "Britishness", epitomised by Trevor Howard and Bernard (Do be careful, Sir!" Lee), and changing the nationality of the two main characters never sat entirely well with the plot. It's my favourite film, but Orson Welles is NOT Harry Lime.

Brian Brandt · 27-02-2004, 02:37 PM

We seem to have another award show every week in the US, which, as far as I'm concerned, serves no purpose other than to shill their product. Since Oscar nominations are voted upon by members of the actors guild, I am not at all surprised that the locally manufactured item is found to be 'best.'

I haven't watched an award show in years, and I am profoundly unconcerned with the self-congradulatory hype. The only part that interests me - watching half-naked starletts make their entrance on the red carpet - usually shows up on the highlights of the 11:00 news.

Russ · 27-02-2004, 02:44 PM

I agree hopefully the monsoon will contnue throughout the weekend

DB7 · 27-02-2004, 03:16 PM

I would ignore the imdb top 250 as 2 LOTR films in the top 5 goes to show it just reflects current trends.

Hollywood often struggles to understand European cinema, just look at their remakes of classic French/Dutch/Spanish/British films.

deckard · 27-02-2004, 05:05 PM

Quote:

</div><div class='quotemain'>DB7:
I would ignore the imdb top 250 as 2 LOTR films in the top 5 goes to show it just reflects current trends.

Hollywood often struggles to understand European cinema, just look at their remakes of classic French/Dutch/Spanish/British films. [/b]

You're not wrong DB7,and also one has to be concerned at being pointed at by the four "F's"(Fickle Fingered Film Fans),there does seem a trend these days for cinema goers to disregard anything older than 5 years,God!,in that case I'm positively extinct!Seriously though,I still go to the cinema regularly to watch new releases and the odd few are excellent,the unfortunate thing is it costs a lot of hard earned cash to catch the decent ones. frown

Gibbie · 27-02-2004, 09:29 PM

As an American, I think it great when Brits win - deservedly. Brian is very accurate on most people's views of the Oscars. They used to mean something culturally. Now it is a self serving evening out by a community that by and large does not care about national folk literature and culture. That is why they don't get Europe - they don't get the US either. Watching the movies is not watching the news (even that is delimited).

I don't know where Dear Jane is from, but that assessment is probably only true of certain people in the academy, Upper West side Manhattan, South Boston, near south Chicago and certain other anti-Anglo outposts.

Truth is for all the social propaganda and ignorance - Americans still look to Britain, like Canada and ANZAC, for language and cultural roots - the key is language and history (like the way South America look to Spain-in their own peculiar way). We're peculiar in many ways - hey, they just opened a fish and chippy in my city with English soccer games on the TV. So go figure.

Another way to track American interest is in buying trends. Amazon.com over here is becoming a major convergence for all kinds of views and interests in film, etc. And, there are many of the films noted here that are rated highly amongst the Yanks. Most of Decks favorites get five stars on Amazon ratings - did you ever think about being a film critic Decks?

One other important source is A&E, which is a cable station. It is steadily taking over from public television as the portal for all things British. On their Website, they have a section called Cult TV and you will quickly find out that they have a tight relationship with Carlton, etc.

It all depends who and where you are at. All the more to make better films.

Don't worry about the extinction bit Decks - another factor is that more people watch videos at home than go to movies anymore. And many are getting the oldies.

Regarding the Oscars - that is not a national vote - that is a Hollywood club vote. And they vote akin to Olympic ice skating judges.

Gibbie

Gibbie · 27-02-2004, 09:43 PM

PS -The Third Man is just a great film on its own merit. I think Orson Welles embodied Harry Lime in the way those type of people really are. His famous dialogue was Machiavellian, but brilliant for the character's perspective.

The British perspective gave the story depth. With that, I think the same would be true whether Lime and Martins were from Spain or Africa or Japan.

Gibbie

deckard · 27-02-2004, 10:36 PM

Y'know Gibbie I think your exactly right!It is a shame in a way that world-wide recognition for a film's merit is judged by an elitist few(which seems to be the way of things in most forms or life).We Brits tend to think we are world leaders in culture and the arts and I suppose in some ways we are - but not all by any means,so unfortunately over the years we can isolate ourselves by seeming to be aloof and unapproachable.We talk on this forum about the wonder of British film and truly I think they are,but let us not forget the huge influence the U.S. has had world-wide in the art of film and in many other ways,particularly in this country.If I really took the time to sit down and work out my top 50 films of all time I would say 20 to 30% of them would be American.No matter where we are in the world,which country we come from,we are all pre-conditioned by our parents,the media and other home-grown sources as to what other nations and peoples are like,hopefully with the recent(last 20 yrs)huge improvements in communications these attitudes and influences may be tempered for the betterment of all.I hope that the so-called cultural divide will narrow to the point that we can enjoy productions from any source that are equal in quality.
Your comments Gibbie,in your posting are very much appreciated and I think you are a true example of the divide closing,in fact, for an American you'd make a damn good Brit.! :)

Gibbie · 01-03-2004, 05:51 PM

Thanks for the MBE, Decks! thumbs_u

Brit relatives won won big, last night (Jackson from NZ and Weir from Aus). Although Jackson and co played it up like a Brit production for the public here. And, because of Tolkien, the English lit folks will see themselves as culturally justified again, even if by childhood entertainment. Professor Tolkien's story is seen as a Brit victory, no matter where the cash came from.

That will also go for the Master and Commander, even if the tops are from Down Under.

Penn and Robbins probably won due to their political views more than their stage presence. Again, my previous note about Olympic ice skating judges.

And Charlize Theron is from S.A.

So the winners were pretty outside the national boundary here, showing for those who care, that all doesn't come from Hollywood. Indies usually have their day at the alternative Sundace Film Festival.

Thank you, Decks for your nod to this side of the Atlantic. I'm afraid that I'm more a critic of American films these days than an advocate - they would send me out like they did David Puttnam.

Hopefully, next year some good Brit actors/directors, etc., will be up for worthy achievements.

Gibbie

birdman · 02-03-2004, 11:41 PM

Although it's easy to knock the Yanks, we should remember that when it comes to tracking down difficult to find vids (including European) they are often to be found in the States and not here apart from collectives such as this 'ere site. As far as the Oscars go, we aren't much better when it comes to the BAFTA's and we often have less to shout about these days.

27-02-2004, 08:59 AM	#2
Yvonne Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 25 iTrader: (0)	. The british film that americans consider the best is The Third Man because it has nothing to do with "britishness" I found this very interesting posting, and there are some valid points in it, but I'm taking up the point which I quote as an example of how different cultures may have a different point of view over the same thing. "The Third Man" in my opinion, is almost entirely about "Britishness", epitomised by Trevor Howard and Bernard (Do be careful, Sir!" Lee), and changing the nationality of the two main characters never sat entirely well with the plot. It's my favourite film, but Orson Welles is NOT Harry Lime. __________________ Yvonne

27-02-2004, 10:36 PM	#9
deckard Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cornwall Posts: 482 Country: iTrader: (0)	Y'know Gibbie I think your exactly right!It is a shame in a way that world-wide recognition for a film's merit is judged by an elitist few(which seems to be the way of things in most forms or life).We Brits tend to think we are world leaders in culture and the arts and I suppose in some ways we are - but not all by any means,so unfortunately over the years we can isolate ourselves by seeming to be aloof and unapproachable.We talk on this forum about the wonder of British film and truly I think they are,but let us not forget the huge influence the U.S. has had world-wide in the art of film and in many other ways,particularly in this country.If I really took the time to sit down and work out my top 50 films of all time I would say 20 to 30% of them would be American.No matter where we are in the world,which country we come from,we are all pre-conditioned by our parents,the media and other home-grown sources as to what other nations and peoples are like,hopefully with the recent(last 20 yrs)huge improvements in communications these attitudes and influences may be tempered for the betterment of all.I hope that the so-called cultural divide will narrow to the point that we can enjoy productions from any source that are equal in quality. Your comments Gibbie,in your posting are very much appreciated and I think you are a true example of the divide closing,in fact, for an American you'd make a damn good Brit.! :) __________________ "and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock"

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27-02-2004, 06:28 AM	#1
Dear Jane Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1 iTrader: (0)	Yanks don't like when Brit films win the academy awards ? When you visit IMDB, you'll surprise that Oscar-winning films like Chariots of Fire, Gandhi, The Killing Fields and Hwnry V(1989)are forgottable. 90's films which get nominations like Secrets and Lies, Remains of The Day, The Crying Game and Goshford Park are underrated if you compare with The American nominations. They hate films like Lawrence of Arabia and The English patient as they are slow-paced and boring. But they praise Spielberg's four-hours art-house Schindler's List.When comedy that enters the nomination like Four Weddings, The Full Monty and Shakespeare in Love, they say that the films are not that good because they are comedy ones. Many americans say that Billy Elliot is crap but Hollywood actually never makes a down-to-earth like other countries do. If you check IMDB top 250, it'd rather put the hollywood version of Irish and Scottish like The Quiet Man and Braveheart rather than In The Name of Father. The british film that americans consider the best is The Third Man because it has nothing to do with "britishness" and using Hollywood legend Orson Wells (despite the novel's writer and the director were UK. There is no Powell's film in top 250 and Hitchock's favorite film certainly Psycho rather than 39 Steps. Do you think The Godfather deserves #1 (it's painful and depressing anyway). Perhaps British films don't need nominations for best picture and going back to the category of foreign films like what Golden Globe did long time ago with Romeo&Juliet and A Passage to India.

27-02-2004, 02:37 PM	#3
Brian Brandt Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lansdale, PA Posts: 82 Country: iTrader: (0)	We seem to have another award show every week in the US, which, as far as I'm concerned, serves no purpose other than to shill their product. Since Oscar nominations are voted upon by members of the actors guild, I am not at all surprised that the locally manufactured item is found to be 'best.' I haven't watched an award show in years, and I am profoundly unconcerned with the self-congradulatory hype. The only part that interests me - watching half-naked starletts make their entrance on the red carpet - usually shows up on the highlights of the 11:00 news.

27-02-2004, 02:44 PM	#4
Russ Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 143 iTrader: (0)	I agree hopefully the monsoon will contnue throughout the weekend

27-02-2004, 03:16 PM	#5
DB7 Administrator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Shrops Posts: 5,757 My Mood: Country: iTrader: (10)	I would ignore the imdb top 250 as 2 LOTR films in the top 5 goes to show it just reflects current trends. Hollywood often struggles to understand European cinema, just look at their remakes of classic French/Dutch/Spanish/British films.

27-02-2004, 09:29 PM	#7
Gibbie Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 714 iTrader: (0)	As an American, I think it great when Brits win - deservedly. Brian is very accurate on most people's views of the Oscars. They used to mean something culturally. Now it is a self serving evening out by a community that by and large does not care about national folk literature and culture. That is why they don't get Europe - they don't get the US either. Watching the movies is not watching the news (even that is delimited). I don't know where Dear Jane is from, but that assessment is probably only true of certain people in the academy, Upper West side Manhattan, South Boston, near south Chicago and certain other anti-Anglo outposts. Truth is for all the social propaganda and ignorance - Americans still look to Britain, like Canada and ANZAC, for language and cultural roots - the key is language and history (like the way South America look to Spain-in their own peculiar way). We're peculiar in many ways - hey, they just opened a fish and chippy in my city with English soccer games on the TV. So go figure. Another way to track American interest is in buying trends. Amazon.com over here is becoming a major convergence for all kinds of views and interests in film, etc. And, there are many of the films noted here that are rated highly amongst the Yanks. Most of Decks favorites get five stars on Amazon ratings - did you ever think about being a film critic Decks? One other important source is A&E, which is a cable station. It is steadily taking over from public television as the portal for all things British. On their Website, they have a section called Cult TV and you will quickly find out that they have a tight relationship with Carlton, etc. It all depends who and where you are at. All the more to make better films. Don't worry about the extinction bit Decks - another factor is that more people watch videos at home than go to movies anymore. And many are getting the oldies. Regarding the Oscars - that is not a national vote - that is a Hollywood club vote. And they vote akin to Olympic ice skating judges. Gibbie

27-02-2004, 09:43 PM	#8
Gibbie Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 714 iTrader: (0)	PS -The Third Man is just a great film on its own merit. I think Orson Welles embodied Harry Lime in the way those type of people really are. His famous dialogue was Machiavellian, but brilliant for the character's perspective. The British perspective gave the story depth. With that, I think the same would be true whether Lime and Martins were from Spain or Africa or Japan. Gibbie

01-03-2004, 05:51 PM	#10
Gibbie Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 714 iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the MBE, Decks! thumbs_u Brit relatives won won big, last night (Jackson from NZ and Weir from Aus). Although Jackson and co played it up like a Brit production for the public here. And, because of Tolkien, the English lit folks will see themselves as culturally justified again, even if by childhood entertainment. Professor Tolkien's story is seen as a Brit victory, no matter where the cash came from. That will also go for the Master and Commander, even if the tops are from Down Under. Penn and Robbins probably won due to their political views more than their stage presence. Again, my previous note about Olympic ice skating judges. And Charlize Theron is from S.A. So the winners were pretty outside the national boundary here, showing for those who care, that all doesn't come from Hollywood. Indies usually have their day at the alternative Sundace Film Festival. Thank you, Decks for your nod to this side of the Atlantic. I'm afraid that I'm more a critic of American films these days than an advocate - they would send me out like they did David Puttnam. Hopefully, next year some good Brit actors/directors, etc., will be up for worthy achievements. Gibbie

02-03-2004, 11:41 PM	#11
birdman Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 16 iTrader: (0)	Although it's easy to knock the Yanks, we should remember that when it comes to tracking down difficult to find vids (including European) they are often to be found in the States and not here apart from collectives such as this 'ere site. As far as the Oscars go, we aren't much better when it comes to the BAFTA's and we often have less to shout about these days.