The top ten movie psychopaths

[batman]

The photo accompanied this review ...

Sergeant Musgrave's Dance

John Arden Oxford Stage Company at the Nuffield Theatre
By Arvind Sivaramakrishnan

"On a bitter winter day in Victorian times, a sergeant and three soldiers manage to hire the last barge up a canal to a remote northern mining village before a freeze sets in. One of their plain dealwood boxes contains a body. They seem to be on the run.
They land to an unexpected welcome from the village's political establishment, namely, the parson – who doubles as the magistrate – the mayor, who is also the colliery owner, and the policeman; these three think Musgrave is leading a recruiting-party. The village miners are on strike, and the notables also offer Musgrave money to pass on the names of the strikers' leaders. The miners too think Musgrave is a recruiter and a strike-breaker, and the shared fiction opens the space for a complex story of unremitting tension – moral, emotional, sexual, and above all political.
Musgrave navigates the fiction. Every move he makes is close to insanity, but it works, even in moments of near-disaster. Yet the gallant venture fails; there is no easy commonality between the soldiers and the miners, despite the exploitation they share at the hands of the rich and powerful.
And with the thaw come the dragoons who have been in pursuit. Musgrave and Private Attercliffe end up awaiting execution. Like the barmaid Annie better possessed of the bitterness of self-knowledge than the others, they knew that they might well end up thus. What Musgrave had meant to do was tell everyone how soldiers are sent with fanfares to inflict hideous, needless deaths on faraway others and to die hideous, needless, panic-stricken deaths themselves, as did Billy Hicks, Annie's lover and the father of her malformed and dead baby. At the dénouement, it is Billy Hicks's red-coated and rotting body – the real flag of empire – that is run up the flagpole. The stunning choreography, to the point of physical danger, and the surging rhythms of Sparky's drum and the other dances intensify the central theme: challenge the lies – and we die; fail to challenge them – and nobody will know why we died. The Nuffield have hosted a mighty work."

[Third Man]

Originally Posted by batman That is a really interesting post Simon in which you you have explained you point of view really well. I think we perhaps are looking at Lecter from two differing perspectives. I was viewing him purely as a case study based on known symptoms and diagnoses while you have taken a more, dare I say it, 'holistic' view of him. I agree with some of what you have said and at work I would include those aspects in any assessments and reports I might have to compile. I am glad you posted that because it gives me a clearer insight into your ideas and I think we are actually more in tune than was first apparent. You, of course, may still think I was talking cobblers!

Could well be holistic, cobblers never

Well in the spirit of things instead of me ripping apart someone else's list, I made the effort and did my own, there is one omission that bugs me on my list I did not include Karlheinz Böhm in 'Peeping Tom', I was twoing-and-froing on wether to include him but in the end I felt he was not a psychopath.

Also one of my initial inclusions was taken out John Doe from 'Seven' I've now got him down in the same basket as Lector what grim pair.


1.Dr Jeckyll and Mr Hyde (1931) - Fredric March as Henry Jeckyll , the best portrayal of the dual personality killer, the template for just about every psychopath.

2.The Wolf Man (1941) - Lon Chaney Jr as Larry Talbot. We all know people can’t really start sprouting hair, growing teeth and howling every time the full moon appears but lycanthropy is a mental condition and Chaneys role as the tortured soul Larry Talbot is every bit the uncontrollable psychopath.

3.The Talented Mr. Ripley (1999) - Matt Damon as Tom Ripley. Ripley is a tricky one to pin down he could easily be a sociopath but because he is haunted by demons and seems to have a lust for killing mixed with falling in and out of different characters I come down on the side of psychopath, although he does show incredible calm.

4.Psycho (1960) - Anthony Hopkins as Norman Bates like Ripley shows incredible calm but is haunted to extreme depths by his mother, the more I watch this film the more scared I get with every viewing .It demands to be seen multiple times for all the little the things that go on in the picture, just watch Bates when the private detective wants to look at the hotel register, it sends shivers down my spine, Hopkins portrayal is a tour de force.

5. Halloween (1978) - Tom Moran as Michael Myers. The legendary ‘Happy Halloween’ psychopath!! We don’t really get to see him much as a character, a opening scene of him as a sister murdering child and then briefly as a escaping inmate from an asylum and then mostly as a lone stalking killer but with added background history and information given to us by Dr Sam Loomis (Donald Pleasence) we know he’s a bit mad and not just with himself.

6. Friday the 13th - Betsy Palmer as Pamela Vorhees mother of the infamous and franchised Jason Vorhees, forget all the sequels this one was quite an interesting look at a possessive mother exacting out her revenge in extreme ways, much copied but never bettered.

7. Frenzy (1972) - Barry Foster as Robert Rusk. This is a raw film from Hitchcock in his latter years when he had returned to Britain in the twilight of his career, he went past Psycho in many ways with this film. Just how mad is Rusk, em not sure and I’m not sure I want to know but what we get to see is enough and again through his actions and different explanations from different characters we know ‘The Neck Tie Murderer’ is a fruit loop.

8.The Hitcher (1986)- Rutger Hauer as John Ryder .Psychopath loose on the US highways pure popcorn munching hokum but Hauer makes for an exceptional nutter. The film rests entirely on your will to enjoy and accept his character.

9.Leave Her to Heaven (1945) - Gene Tierney as Ellen Berent Harland. Jealousy is a dangerous game and it can make you insane and it makes some people turn psychopathic. Just how much in charge is Ellen of her own faculties, has her envy destroyed any semblance of sanity, it’s up for debate if you watch this classic ‘Film Noir’ a great looking film, brilliant story with a macabre character analysis, very interesting film.

10.Play Misty for Me (1971) - Jessica Walter as Evelyn. Every psychopath list should have a story based on fandom and obsession and where it can lead. This prefigured ‘Fatal Attraction’ by quite a few years and while the film story is a bit clunky even ham fisted in parts it’s all in the lunatic Evelyn that the film hinges and any person who can give Clint the willies has got to be a bit scary.

OK flame away I can take it.

Simon

[batman]

Dear Third Man/Simon

Flame thrower at the ready .....

#1 Mr Hyde is the most pure psychopath (with Mr Myers) ever to hit the screen, all the goodness of Dr Jekyll is removed from him so we are left with the rest. I would have put him on my list but I wasn't sure if the drug angle ruled him out.

#2 The Wolf Man falls into a similar category as Mr Hyde ... but can a wolf be a psycho. Hmmmm ....

#3 Ripley is in my list .... his calm and cunning is what makes him so chilling.

#4 Norman is schizophrenic .... 'Mother' is the psycho. The Bates family is also on my list.

#5 Michael Myers is right up there with Mr Hyde. No remorse, no empathy, pure evil.

#6 I have never seen a Jason movie so I cannot comment.

#7 Robert Rusk is another one who is on my list .... and another narcissist, like Lecter

#8 Must be a contender. I forgot about John Rider.

#9 Another one I forgot about (along with Emily from Daughter of Darkness). Eileen Barant is definitely all psycho in this great film .... the swimming sequence is horrific.

#10 I must be a sexist or a gentleman as the lady psychos all slipped through my memory. Evelyn would be on my list too.

All present and correct, the flame thrower has gone back in the box. .... the only one we disagree about is ol' Hannibal and isn't on either of our lists!

Please feel free to flame thrower my list.
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#1 Francis Dollarhyde - Manhunter
#2 Red Grant - From Russia With Love
#3 Tom Ripley - Plein Soleil and Talented Mr Ripley
#4 Max Cady - Cape Fear (original version)
#5 Stephen Lake - Bunny Lake Is Missing
#6 Robert Rusk - Frenzy
#7 Norman Bates - Psycho and Psycho 2
#8 Harry Powell - Night of the Hunter
#9 Michael Myers - Halloween
#10 Narcy - They Made Me A Fugitive

Dishonourable mentions to ...

John Christie - 10 Rillington Place
Danny - Night Must Fall (remake)
Reinhard Heydrich - Conspiracy
Amon Goeth - Schindler's List
Pinkie Brown - Brighton Rock
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[Third Man]

#1 Mr Hyde is the most pure psychopath (with Mr Myers) ever to hit the screen, all the goodness of Dr Jekyll is removed from him so we are left with the rest. I would have put him on my list but I wasn't sure if the drug angle ruled him out.

He does stop taking the drug, so I'm sure it's his unstable character that determines his sanity in the end. I view the drug as a placebo.

#2 The Wolf Man falls into a similar category as Mr Hyde ... but can a wolf be a psycho. Hmmmm ....

The Wolfman is metaphorical it's a visual gimmick for his insanity.It serves no other purpose than for the titilation of the audience.

Here's the one's I dont agree with...

#2 Red Grant - From Russia With Love

If we were talking about the book, I would agree totally but we see nothing of Grant's prevous life in the film. In the film he comes across as just a ruthless mean assassin in the book he's a rapist, killer who shows symptoms of lycanthropy.

#4 Max Cady - Cape Fear (original version)

Is there anything to suggest Cady's sanity is in question in this film, I pretty much got him down as just a very dangerous person.

Simon

[batman]

He does stop taking the drug, so I'm sure it's his unstable character that determines his sanity in the end. I view the drug as a placebo.

I can go with that.

The Wolfman is metaphorical it's a visual gimmick for his insanity.It serves no other purpose than for the titilation of the audience.

I have never viewed it like that because it would have been an almighty coincidence if Bela Lugosi's character (who turned into wolf and was seen by others as a wolf) had the same problems as Chaney without being directly linked to him.

Re Red Grant ... I was mainly thinking of the book but Grant's coldness and apparent pleasure in his work in the film tipped the balance for me.

Re Max Cady ... psychopathy isn't insanity, the two can go together, but Cady is remorseless, selfish, anti-social, vicious and cunning. These factors indicate a high possibility of psychopathy.

[Amethyst_Isle]

Originally Posted by Third Man 4.Psycho (1960) - Anthony Hopkins as Norman Bates like Ripley shows incredible calm but is haunted to extreme depths by his mother, the more I watch this film the more scared I get with every viewing .It demands to be seen multiple times for all the little the things that go on in the picture, just watch Bates when the private detective wants to look at the hotel register, it sends shivers down my spine, Hopkins portrayal is a tour de force.

Sorry to sound pedantic but it is Anthony Perkins and not Hopkins,maybe you should re edit your post accordingly ?

[Third Man]

I had noticed but was looking for the edit feature, I can't see it, I can see it on my last post but I don't seem to be able to edit the previous post.

Simon

[Amethyst_Isle]

Maybe one of the kind mods here might be able to do it for you ?

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by Third Man I had noticed but was looking for the edit feature, I can't see it, I can see it on my last post but I don't seem to be able to edit the previous post. Simon

You can edit a post for up to 5 minutes after you've made it.
It does help to read what you've written to check it for obvious mistakes
But we've all made mistakes.

I could change your original post but now that it's been commented on it would make a nonsense of those comments, so I'll leave it as written

Steve

[Third Man]

Yes your right, I had Hopkins on the mind so much that he transformed into Perkins.I hardly think it matters too much, I think, I hope....

Simon

[Lord Lucan]

Keyser Soze (Kevin Spacey) in "The Usual Suspects" may not be everyones idea of the archetypal psychopath but he certainly had issues!

[byebyebadman]

robert deniro in cape fear is the daddy of all psycho's

[batman]

Originally Posted by byebyebadman robert deniro in cape fear is the daddy of all psycho's

Nah .... he's just a flashy imitation of the real thing - Robert Mitchum!

[Shadwell]

As for lady psychos, I give you Tuesday Weld from that cult classic "Pretty Poison" (1968). Poor old Antony Perkins doesn't stand a chance as she exploits and manipulates him for her own evil ends. Witness the scene when she drowns the night watchman and then wants to have sex afterwards. Not to mention of course, matricide. I broadly agree with everything that has been posted here. However, I can't help but think of Richard Widmark, RIP, in "Kiss of Death." Fanatastic stuff!!! And this was made when little Alex and his droogs from "A Clockwork Orange" were still in their nappies.... Burt Lancaster as the monsterous J.J. Hunsecker in "The Sweet Smell of Success." Sure Robert Mitchum is fantastic in "Night of the Hunter." You won't get an arguement from me on that one but Burt Lancaster as J.J. Hunsecker is right up there. The sheer sense of menace and terror he generates as he manipulates everyone around him for his own ends is memorising. You certainly wouldn't want to cross swords with him. Great dialogue. Great script, great cinematography, great acting, great music. One of my all time favourites. From the moment you meet J.J. Hunsecker, you know you're in for a great time. Rarely has the cinema seen a psychopath quite like this one. "Match me, Sidney...."

[Third Man]

J.J. Hunsecker what a character!

I could go on quoting the cracking script written by Clifford Odets all day but is Hunsecker really a psychopath he may of once be termed one in the past but I think he would now be called sociopath which has superseded what we would of known at one time as a psychopath.

I can however see some people calling him a psychopath he really does come off like one although he doesn’t murder anyone with his hands I could well imagine a few victims of his vicious and unforgiving tongue jumping off the precipice of a few luxury apartment balconies and just how close did he come to killing his own sister with his incestuous and devious ways, real close, I imagine!

J.J. Hunsecker is truly one of the larger than life monsters of the film screen if his mouth had been the barrel of a gun the streets of New York would of been swimming in blood from the arteries of the rich and famous.

" Son, I don't relish shooting a mosquito with an elephant gun, so why don't you just shuffle along? "

"You're dead, son. Get yourself buried. "

Simon