davidb

they are lazy .take robbery and up the junction as recent official releases ,not much in the way of extras [ in fact probably none ] and artwork a kid could come up with .they could steal the bootleggers thunder by inviting some people from the film as commentators , put the extra effort into artwork and booklets ,drag up some deleted scenes or stills etc etc .

Straff

In order to try to do 'the right thing', if I see a film I want which is listed as 'PD' on FleaBay I always look at every online store I know of to see if there is a 'legit' copy available. If there is, assuming the 'legit' version is not extortionately priced, I will choose that one, especially as such a disc is likely to be of higher quality. If I can't find one I have no issue buying from FleaBay. This salves my conscience.

Semper ubi sub ubi

davidb

the guy i bought my copy of up the junction a few years ago from is obviously a fan of the film himself ,he even included the soundtrack and put some effort in with the artwork etc .shame their not as enthusiastic at the studio that holds the rights to it

batman

That's more or less what I do.

Don't miss out on a chance to win a rare film in Bat-Quiz 13 closing date - 31/8/8.

Steve Crook

Have you tried to do that for a film? Do you have any idea how much work is involved? Add to that the additional work of getting a decent print run made in good quality, not just home made copies. And the problems with distribution and advertising it.

Why do you suppose that it's a studio that holds the rights? It can often be the original director, or their descendants.

Steve

davidb

well if they dont bother the bootleggers win .its up to them .they must know a film like up the junction has a bit of a cult following if they dont try and please its fans they wont bother buying it .what would be the harm in inviting dennis waterman in to do a commentary ?

Modular

So... not only did this Bootlegger you purchased from financially benefit from a film he had no rights to, he also ripped off the owners of the soundtrack too! And that's cool with you? Oh my giddy aunt...


Listen, this will be my only post on the subject, as young Batman and me 'enthusiastically' discussed the whole issue of Bootleggers and copyright some time ago, and I nailed my 'colours' firmly to the wall back then.

Personally, I agree wholeheartedly with the posts Steve Crook has made so far.

I'd also put forward the point that (on the internet at least) the biggest problem is not so much the Bootleggers themselves, but the system (e-Bay etc) that actually allows them to ply the material.

Interestingly enough, it was reported only this week that e-Bay has been heavily fined for allowing the trade of counterfeit designer goods on their site. How I wish the various film and television rights holders would club together and also drag these auction sites through the courts. Only then would the situation improve a little.

In the mean-time, for anyone who ever has doubts as to the legitimacy of a UK film or television series being sold on an online auction site with a description that "it's public domain material, and conforms with e-Bay rules", the general rule of thumb is that it's 'complete and utter bollocks' (pardon my French).

batman

Very diplomatically put Modular.

Don't miss out on a chance to win a rare film in Bat-Quiz 13 closing date - 31/8/8.

Steve Crook

You automatically assume that they've got nothing better to do than to release titles that were made many years ago and that they almost certainly won't make any money from if they do release them. They probably have to make a living and could well have other projects they're working on. A "cult following" implies a passionate following, but not many in numbers.

As I said above, doing even a half-decent release involves a lot of people doing quite a lot of work and synchronising when they can all do that can be very difficult.

There are releases that I've been waiting years for. I know they'll happen eventually but I know that the people involved in the release are very busy with other things, usually other things that stand a chance of actually helping towards earning them a living. In the meantime, the bootleggers keep selling their copies. Everyone involved in the release is well aware of this and know that the more people buy the bootlegged versions, the fewer will buy the proper version when it is released, no matter how good they make it. They are well aware that they won't make any money from this release, but they will still do it as soon as they can and I'll still buy it when they do, no matter how many other copies I've got.

Sometimes the realities of the world get in the way of your plans

Steve

davidb

ive just this afternoon bought the double deckers on ebay .im amazed a firm like network havent already released it themselves .if a legit copy was released ,then depending on the extras etc i may still buy it .if a film is only judged as being for a niche market ,therefore a film company doesnt bother releasing it ,simply because of money .yet a fan of the film has tracked a good copy down ,put together some artwork and other bits and bobs for it and is selling it for a small sum on ebay ....good luck to them !

TimR

That is a big story here. The credibility of ebay has been severely damaged, and with good reason.

Since joining the forum I have seen numerous films that are on sale there that I cannot find elsewhere, but that seem questionable. As far as I am concerned, it is better to be safe than sorry. I don't buy them.

The names involved in the current case are all French and Italian designers, and the products are mostly high-end goods. I have already seen the story in news broadcasts and on web sites several times and it will definitely change buying habits. Ebay has a lot of work to do to restore credibility.

Hereafter, in a better world than this,
I shall desire more love and knowledge of you

Modular

You must have money to burn old boy. Have you ever heard of BitTorrents...?


The Double Deckers was a 20th Century Fox financed series. Network do not currently have the rights to release any Fox material.


So, you only buy material based upon the presence of extras? Strange, I buy DVDs for the actual programme or film myself...


See Steve's various answers above.

But surely you'd agree that a company exists to make money? What would be the point in that company releasing material knowing it would sell so few copies it would make a loss? By doing that, they wouldn't be in business for very much longer...!!


No. For the large part, Bootleggers simply source the material from satellite broadcasts and other people's Torrents.

The "small sums" (as you put it) on e-Bay quickly start to add up to a very tidy tax free profit when you realise the sheer number of titles these Bootleggers have on offer.

Modular

I admit to having little sympathy with e-Bay and this prosecution. I believe they've been incredibly complacent over the last few years, and looking at the sheer amount of dodgy items still on sale every day, it can't be too long before they're brought before the courts again, if not in the US then somewhere else.

Grey Wyler

It all depends where your interests lie. I have no doubt in my mind that the complete works of notable directors and stars will eventually be easily and legally accessible, in the best quality. Obviously you know what you are waiting for and are confident it will arrive.

I however do not have that advantage. For years now i have been collecting and writing on the film and TV career of John Steiner. i have struggled hard to find the best possible prints of movies from any available source, but there are still some holes in my collection. The chances of films such as Appointment In Liverpool, Rads 1001, The Little Archimedes or Antonio Gramsci appearing on DVD are almost zilch. So in order to see films such as these there is really no other option than to access the grey market.
I think it sad that a Ugo Liberatore's masterwork BALI, in its original cut has only ever been available in bootleg form from one US dealer whilst the truncated 1975 version was given a remastered release in Italy.

Recently i completed a reworking of a text on Alexis Kanner, which i self published. Two of the movies i viewed again: Connecting Rooms and Goodbye Gemini are nowhere near a likely release and had to be watched again on grey market copies.

If in the unlikely case that some of the mentioned films arrive legally i will gladly purchase them, but i am not holding my breath, and am therefore forced into the position of getting my mitts on them from wherever,

davidb

hands up how many people here have got tv shows and films they taped off the telly in their collection ?let him without sin cast the first stone etc