Politics and Artistic Integrity

[Fellwanderer]

It doesn't feel right to me to denigrate a man when he is no longer in a position to answer back so I thought I'd start a new thread.



How far does one take an actor's political views into account when considering his or her work?



I try to ignore political views unless they are extreme - although I suppose "extreme" is a very subjective view. Naturally, those whose views I share seem completely reasonable to me though I'm sure there are some who would consider them extremists.



Apart from anyone expressing neo-fascist views, I think the time when I would seriously take exception is when someone appears to be hypocritical

[batman]

Unless a performer attempts to integrate his politics into his work then I feel they are none of my business.



It is often the case that when an actor does try to merge the two they come seriously unstuck.



One of my favourite actors is Marlon Brando. Brando's adherence to political causes had a serious impact on his career as he was determined to make a film with what he called 'significance'. His inability to reconcile the two led to his career decline as he began to feel that politics was more important to him than acting. Eventually, in his own mind he felt he had failed both the causes he supported and himself, especially when he needed to keep acting to support himself.



However, Brando's films around this time (the late 50s and throughout the 60s) are fascinating to watch. A mixture of total crap and potential, but flawed, works of genius. Throughout them all Brando is compulsively watchable.



Re hypocrisy. A difficult one ..... where does one draw the line at where it becomes hypocrisy. Actors are professionals doing a job and often play characters totally different from their real self. For me it becomes dodgy when an actor makes statements in public either for or against a certain issue, then cashes in by appearing in a film that opposes their publicly stated point of view.

[DB7]

Sean Connery's Scottish 'independence' calls from the sunny Bahamas and funding of the SNP through an offshore bank has certainly made me think he's a bit of a dick, tho I still enjoy his old films.



Personally I think, like Heston, it is intwined with his film career as they use that fame to push their agendas.

[Third Man]

name='Fellwanderer']

How far does one take an actor's political views into account when considering his or her work?

Personally I never would mix the two unless of course that person is using or has used their work to promote their political views then I would have to consider the two together. In the case of Heston, fame came first and then the NRA much later, so the fame was already there, people will always say he used his fame to make his point stronger but then he would of never been able to get away from that, would he. The 'Civil Rights Movement' in the 60's weren’t complaining about his fame then and he was very much a bigger star in 1963 when he attended 'The Civil Rights March'.



The one person who sticks out like a sore thumb on this issue is Leni Reifenstahl now I personally admire the work done by her but their are allot of people who won't consider it at all because of it's subject matter and the fact that they do not believe her latter denials over compliance with the Nazi Party. Now that's fine with me and I don't have a problem with that stance but there is no getting away from the fact that she documented an important and tumultuous part of the worlds history and it's filmed in such a majestic way that it would for me be hard to dismiss it on the grounds of political views, it has a tremendous learning curve for those wishing to learn about the power of cinema photography.



I'm not going to stop looking at someone’s work because of their political persuasions in fact I might even look at it more as I find things like background very interesting.





Simon

[billy bentley]

Pesronally, I feel no obligation to like any artists entire career. I'm quite comfortable liking certain periods of an artists' output, be they actors, film-makers, musicians, painters or whatever. I can like an artists early work and dislike the rest. Many human beings change their opinions and outlook as a result of the experience of their lives. So the person that produced a work of art as a struggling young person, may not be the same many successful years later. I also think many people can change - sexism, racism and homophobia can be a product of an environment. when a person moves iinto a new environment their opinions can change. The young ignorant person might end up quite well informed. Obviously this is a two way street. I have nothing against the young Charlton Heston the actor, but I have a major one with the old Charlton Heston NRA frontman. When I watch "Touch of Evil" the NRA doesn't enter my mind, buit when I see a picture of him in his late years I can't get the NRA out of my head. Sorry didn't mean to bring this back to CH.

[dremble wedge]

name='Fellwanderer']

How far does one take an actor's political views into account when considering his or her work?

Not at all.



It's not as if they are my friends and we're going to debate their political views down the pub so why should I care?

[smudge]

I suppose it's all down to what type of person/viewer you are. To some people (like Mrs. Smudge with Peter Sellers) knowing too much about the offscreen person - be it their politics or their personality - can spoil, or completely wipe out, the viewing pleasure. If, as has already been said here, life becomes too intertwined with art and the hidden agendas are hardly hidden anymore, then even the most tolerant viewer will walk away.



Like anything else in life it is a question of choices - sometimes it's quite easy to set aside the person and just enjoy the film, and I gues that's what most of us do most of the time...



Smudge

[billy bentley]

Your Smudgeness,



Did you ever read Michael Palin's review of Peter Sellers biography ? If you haven't, you might find it interesting, as it touched on the very point you make. Not sure where you would find it, but here in the U.S. it appeared in the New York Times Book Review

[Dave Rattigan]

It depends. There are "actors" and then there are "stars". The stars' screen appearances often depend on their public persona, and to that extent it can be hard to separate the actor from the personality.



I find it hard to like Heston, because his movies very much depended on his public persona as a star - and since I find it hard to like the man, it makes it difficult to engage with the characters he played.

[suzepulcheria]

And then of course there was John Wayne...

[smudge]

name='billy bentley']Your Smudgeness,



Did you ever read Michael Palin's review of Peter Sellers biography ? If you haven't, you might find it interesting, as it touched on the very point you make. Not sure where you would find it, but here in the U.S. it appeared in the New York Times Book Review

Not seen that Billy -



I shall see if I can hunt it down...



Smudge

[Harleybloke]

Don't often see 'Politics' and 'Integrity' in the same sentence........



Kenneth Griffiths was a staunch left winger I'm told but I wasn't ever aware of it in his acting, nor Roger Moore as an arch Thatcherite.

[Moor Larkin]

Seeing as poor old Chuck started all this, I'm a bit baffled why his support of gun law makes him such a terrible person. Why make politics a moral issue? James Bond promotes guns for killing people whereas I suspect Chuck more had hunting in mind, yet Bond movies seem quite popular in this board



Gary Glitter's songs are rarely played nowadays. I noticed Harry Hill's use of Gazza's old hit the other Saturday went down like a lead balloon with his normally hyena-like audience.

[christoph404]

name='DB7']Sean Connery's Scottish 'independence' calls from the sunny Bahamas and funding of the SNP through an offshore bank has certainly made me think he's a bit of a dick, tho I still enjoy his old films.



Personally I think, like Heston, it is intwined with his film career as they use that fame to push their agendas.

Its an odd situation, Connery hasn't lived in Scotland for more than 50 years but has said he will go back and live there when it is independent from England. Is he saying that his reason for not living there now is because it is not independent? One would think that if he loves Scotland so much he would make more of an impression by fighting for his particular cause from a residence within Scotland. Perhaps he shudders at the bad memories of those long , cold , damp Scottish winters that last from September to April or else his present way of life is actually more important to him than his political causes. I get the feeling that though he is a keen supporter of the SNP that it is not the be all and end all in his life, if it was he would certainly wholly deserve the criticism that is heaped on him for living in the Bahamas while supporting the SNP. He is a retired actor who is fond of Scotland, supports the SNP and their cause and legally and publically bungs them some of his small change as a token of financial support, all from his beach house in the Bahamas. .....maybe he does that to deliberateley antagonise people

[oxfam1uk]

This is a very interesting question ...



But what I also find interesting is that the majority of negative comments are about actors with right or conservative views. How often do you hear someone say "I couldn't enjoy watching his films - he's a leftie "



I also think that there is a great deal of misunderstanding about American politics by British people. We tend to judge whether someone's view's are "acceptable" according to whether you would frequently hear them in Britain.



Hence the idea that Charlton Heston was a "right-wing nut", merely because he spoke up for retaining America's current gun laws. People choose to forget that he was strongly anti-racism, because the two things don't compute in their British minds.

[Marky B]

I remember when Vanessa Redgrave made her acceptance speech for her Oscar for Julia,in which she made a controversial acknowledgement of some terrorist groups (I think - no doubt I will be corrected there) and recieved some booing from the audience.

As I said before,award ceremonies are a celebration of their field and should not be used to spout politics.

Ta Ta

Marky B

[GRAEME]

name='Harleybloke']Don't often see 'Politics' and 'Integrity' in the same sentence........



Kenneth Griffiths was a staunch left winger I'm told but I wasn't ever aware of it in his acting, nor Roger Moore as an arch Thatcherite.

Griffiths made a superb series of personal documentaries about British imperialism and warmongering. And turned in a brill performance in The Wild Geese! Excellent stuff.

[CaptainWaggett]

name='Marky B']I remember when Vanessa Redgrave made her acceptance speech for her Oscar for Julia,in which she made a controversial acknowledgement of some terrorist groups (I think - no doubt I will be corrected there) and recieved some booing from the audience.

As I said before,award ceremonies are a celebration of their field and should not be used to spout politics.

Ta Ta

Marky B

What terrorist group? There were people (the Jewish Defense League?) picketting the ceremony to protest a known anti-Zionist winning an Oscar and she made a speech denouncing all totalitarianism and calling a protestors a bunch of Zionist hooligans who disgraced Jewish freedom-fighters. Obviously she could have ignored the protestors but why should she? If awards ceremonies are meant to be a celebration of their field, doesn't that apply to everyone?

[oxfam1uk]

I think Vanessa Redgrave stood up and spoke of her difficulties when making a documentary film "The Palestinians".

[dogstar]

name='suzepulcheria']And then of course there was John Wayne...

The John Wayne question is an interesting one. Speaking personally I have no problem admiring the movies he made for John Ford and Howard Hawks most of which deservedly have the reputation of being classics. However I have more of problem with his later films where his politics had become more overt and became increasingly inseparable from his film persona ( notwithstanding the fact that many of them were rubbish! ). Whilst he had every right to the opinions I always felt the strident manner in which he expressed them and effectively used his iconic status to promote them was deeply unsavoury as well going a long way to undermine the excellence of his earlier work by fixing him in ( at least sections of ) the public mind as a right-wing demagogue who made too many lazy, conservative-leaning movies.