Plasma?

[MikeB]

Which TV is better is very subjective - its not just the picture (which is very much in the eye of the beholder), but also other things as well. Do you want the best internet access? Do you like the remote? Sound quality? Number of HDMI's? Whats the price of either? I generally find the best one or two sets (never more than three), and allow customers a really good look, and then get them look at something else, and then come back to it. It gives them a change to see the set with fresh eyes, and they will generally pick out the one they like fairly quickly.

Samsung plasma's only really start at 51 inches (its 50 plus 1 - a tag line which I doubt has sold many extra TV's!), and Panasonic are (until the new ones come out) plasma entirely from 46 onwards, with the 50 being directly equivelent to the Samsung. We only have the 6900 50in in store, and its hidden away somewhat, so I tend to look at rather less than the Panasonic's , which are fairly high up. Samsung are pretty good at plasma (winning a 3D award in 2010), and their range actually includes the P51D8000, which is basically the same look at the 800hz LED model, and is about £1200 (if you can get one).

I'll compare the two main TV's in that size, but with the proviso that this time of year is a good/bad time to be looking. The good part is that prices are very steady and about as low as the can go (although a slight uptick from before Christmas, and there were lots of deals too). We know what the reviews and feedback are like. The bad bit is that the CES show in Las Vegas is basically like the Paris/Milan/New York shows for TV's, etc. Its just ended, which means the new models were announced (or at least some of them). Like fashion, who wants the old models? The manufacturers have stopped building them, shipping becomes more erratic as stocks run low, and retailers don't want huge numbers as they will become 'old' models at new prices.

I call it 'the Dead Zone', where the TV I want to show you becomes increasingly difficult to get hold of (if at all), and all my collegues have similar problems. This is generally the times of year (although it has started to get earlier) when someone brings in a copy of 'Which' and points out a bargain TV. You reply that it was excellent, but was delisted some weeks before. However, if you can get one (possibly ex-display), you can snag a very good deal. A display Panasonic ST30 50 Plasma was reduced from £699 (a very good price) down to £499 because we could not get any more. Since it came with our very desirable warrenty anyway, the buyer did well. Unfortunately, another customer wanted the same model a week later - and of course there were none left.

Panasonic basically swept the board last year with their plasma TV's if you look at the WhatHifi awards. TV of the year was the 42in GT30, while the 46in and the 50in won those sizes, with the 55in VT30 (basically a Pioneer panel) winning the 52in plus award. The GT30 is very good indeed, although I would argue that the Samsung is pretty good, and has better online access (although Panasonic are slowly getting better, and hopefully should up their game this year). Apparently there is a 'green blob' issue with some TV's. but a software upgrade seemingly will deal with this. The GT30 has a very black screen (NeoPDP), and excellent colours. You have to add the Wifi, the Smart stuff is not the most advanced, but good remote. It also has Freesat, as well as Freeview HD. It does Skype.

The Samsung P516900 has built in Wifi (although it does not seem to do Skype, as a customer found out the hard way), is a Smart TV, and has all the usual bits I'd like to see. Price is around a £1000. Nice picture, but havn't looked at it well enough to say decent or really good.

The problem with comparing it with the Panasonic is the GT50 has disappeared from our website (although the 46 is still available, as is the wonderful but pricey VT series). Its about £1100 if you can get one. You might still be able to get one from instore (or a clearance), but you looking at a funny time of year.

The ST30 from Panasonic is a real contender. Good panel, and although more basic than the GT series, is very well priced (we really couldn't keep up with demand for the 42). At around £6-700, very good value, but now v.difficult to get hold of.

Overall, Panasonic very good (and if you can get the VT50 for a good price - currently £1300ish full price, you'll get the best), and Samsung fine. However, I'd still say look at them - you have to examine both, and look at the pros and cons. The 600hz refresh rate is the same in all cases, but the more you pay, the better the panel and the processor. And of course which do you prefer, LED or plasma? There are good reasons to look at both.

Are 3D panels better than 2D? In theory no, but in practice....

The more you pay, generally the better you get. The panels. etc will better (and therefore more expensive), and there will be more kit built it. Thats why the ST series is good (and very good value), the GT is very good, and the VT is very very good. All three of these are 3D. Thats simply because mid/high level TV's are all 3D. A 2D TV is simply not as important to manufacturers any more, because its a cheaper lower level product. Therefore its panel probably isn't quite as good, or at least as new. Thats not to say that all 2D TV's are rubbish - in fact you can still get excellent value (the excellent Samsung series 5 being a case in point), but its likely that a less capable panel will end up in the 2D only TV, if the spec is similar. This especially applies to cheaper 'specials' from big builders. You can get good deals from cutdown models like the UT series (fewer HDMI's etc), but the panel will be generally not be up to a GT series. You pays your money...

Its not just plasma of course. I point out to customers that a 3D TV may have a 200hz, 400hz or even 800hz screen. The 2D TV will have a 50 or 100hz at most. The 3D bit tends to imply a package of goodies that will improve viewing. That isn't always the case (certain brands do not impress), but its not a bad rule of thumb.

However, a clear cut case is the difference between the Panasonic S30 TV and the ST30 (T means 3D to Panasonic). Same spec? Yes, but if you look at the panel for the S30, its grey. Its actually called a 'grey panel', because thats how it looks when its switched off. It should not be a problem, but when you look at the picture, the ST30 (with a black panel) looks much better. Its not just me, customers all agree. The ST30 does have a better panel in it, and it shows in the picture. Its 3D, but even if you never use that function, your still getting a better picture. The cost of the S30 in 42in is £499, while the ST30 is only fifty pounds more (sadly, the 42 seems to have vanished, although the 46 remains available). The S30 is pretty horrible, and I'll do my best to stop customers buying them, but alas its less than £500, so looks like great value.

In answer to the question - its not a certainty, but its likely that a 3D TV (to a certain spec) will have a better picture than a 2D TV of the same spec. But thats not a done deal, so its something to look at and make up you own mind. And make sure you get the right size - 3 times the size of the screen away from it is a good distance.

As to when the new TV's will start to come in? March is normally the earliest, and I'd wait for a while to get prices etc level. The Olympics will be in the summer, and if its follows the pattern of the World Cup, you might see lots of good deals, freebies (blu-rays, etc) and even possible tradeins. On the other hand, Sony, Sharp and Panasonic have all just made horrible losses (Samsung is making good money), so it might be that they can't afford to pay you to buy a TV. Keep your eyes open, you never know.

[Freddy]

Many thanks for these excellent posts Mike, all the information has been duly noted, and after March will cross the river to the Merseyside and see for myself at John Lewis, rather than rely on Amazon reviews. 32" LED Panasonic is one which I'll look at.

Much appreciated

Paul

[RogerThornhill]

Mike, many thanks from me as well, I'm looking for a new TV so all that information is very interesting. There are so many sets out there and so many things to take into consideration, it's really bewildering.

[Freddy]

Mike, many thanks from me as well, I'm looking for a new TV so all that information is very interesting. There are so many sets out there and so many things to take into consideration, it's really bewildering.

Yes, so much so I have been putting it off for a year, relying on internet and i player but for me that means I cannot separate work from leisure as the computer caters for both.

[MikeB]

Thanks for the thanks!

I wouldn't worry too much - the basics are fairly simple. The size of the screen should be about a third of the distance away from it. A 32in TV (and I can think of almost no front room that can't take a 32) should be about 1.5m away, and a 37in 2.25m. By 40in (or 42in), you can simply multiply it by 3, so 40 x 3 = 120in. or 10 feet, and so on. You can get closer (HD being finer than SD, and Blu-Ray better still, and 3D Blu-Ray even better), but I like to play safe. Don't worry it will be too big at that distance, it will be perfect.

Once you have the size, everything falls into place. Up to 37in, its LCD or LED, after 42, you get plasma coming in. I'd like to see 4 HDMI's (3 at a pinch), Smart function (basically internet acces for Iplayer, etc) and wifi (probably much more likely to inbuilt this year). A Freeview HD tuner is pretty much a must (unless your on Sky, etc, in which case a Freeview tuner would be OKish), and normally comes with Full HD (used to be called 1080). The 1080/Full HD should be a nobrainer for any film buff, since a Blu-Ray is now going to be something you will aquire.

Go for as many hertz as you can (its called the refresh rate), and a LCD/LED will hopefully have a 100hz screen (although a 50hz might be fine for you). Once you see 200hz plus, your looking at a 3D TV. If the TV is good, then don't worry about the 3D - its hopefully not the main reason your buying it. Plasma tend to have 600hz screens as standard, but think of this as equal to a 100hz for a LCD TV for about the same price. The more expensive, the better the panel will be, so a 600hz screen in an expensive plasma will be better than a cheap one.

Look at the remote. A good manufacturer (Sony, Samsung and Panasonic) will have agood remote. They've spent time thinking about it. A cheap and nasty TV (from a supermarket) will have a cheap remote (probably bought by the ton), which will be hard to use and won't do what you want.

Do some homework (but use this to ask the right questions - you don't need to catch me out; if I don't know something , I'll admit it and find out), and be realistic in your budget (when I'm mystery shopped, I don't get many points for asking about a budget directly, but if I know it, I can find the right thing for you much quicker). Don't expect a Rolls Royce for the cost of a Mini, but often the price of a TV will be much less than many customers expect.

And like the TV. Look at it - does it look right as a bit of furniture? Will a feature drive you nuts? When I first started working, a lady and her husband came in and looked at a 42in Panasonic. She was very interested, which was slightly unusual. The next week they came back, looked at the TV again and bought it. I asked her why she was attracted to the TV. She said 'It spoke to me'. Sounds a bit daft, but its a really good way to buy a TV. As a lady customer said about a Pure radio last year, 'its like when you see a pair of shoes you fall in love with!' .

Freddy/Paul - I'm not saying where I work, but certainly I would advise JL as an excellent place to go..! The Panasonic E30 in a 32in is nice (good picture, remote, sound, and is smartish). At £499 reasonable value. My other recommendations are the excellent 5 Series Samsung (similar spec and good smart access, and a great deal at £399), but a nightmare to get hold of now, and the 6 Series Samsung, with a 400hz screen wifi built in, 3D and very stylish. The What hifi 32in winner for 2011, and the one I've been saying I'd have since June. £629 is a little high, but if it comes down to the £550's, your looking at a good deal. Your problem is finding these TV's in stock, since time is running out. Otherwise wait until about May.

[Steve Crook]

Now that they've unplugged analogue BBC2 and are soon to unplug the other analogue channels I finally succumbed.
I went into John Lewis in Kingston and had a long chat with one of the very nice associates there.

After dismissing all the gimmicks that I definitely don't need like 3D (flash in the pan), HD being good for Sport (no interest) and for "action" movies (even less interest) I finally settled on the Panasonic TX-L37E5B 37" for a few pennies under £600. They'll deliver it next Thursday

I'm still not 100% convinced by the speed of reaction of the LED/LCD/Plasma screens. They all seem to suffer a bit from not showing fast movement very accurately - they need a bit of time to settle on the image. Every time the camera moves or people move in the frame there's a bit of blurriness until the TV catches up.

Thanks for all the useful advice

Steve

[MikeB]

Let us know what you think of it. Its one of the new batch of this years TV's (its that time of year again...) and is apparently 50hz screen with 3x LED blinking (hence the 150hz) - I'd be interested in how good the rendering is, compared with a standard 100hz. Panasonic LED panels are usually very good, but play around with the settings to get it right for your room (including frame processing). Plasma starts at 42in, so LED is standard for 37". Since 37" is always a restrictive size in terms of range anyway, the Panni was a good choice.

HD TV is good for everything, although you get to see everyones lines, so it has its downsides...The Full HD screen (1080) is of course what you need for Blu-Ray, and you'll get a sdlightly better picture from it anyway, compared with HD Ready. Wifi-ready, but if you have your hub nearby, use a LAN, and then use Iplayer, etc (online not being a Panasonic strongpoint, but some stuff, nevertheless). Good picture, easy to use instructions (apparently some of the Panni's talk to you when your setting up, if you have sight problems, which is a clever touch) and a good remote. Since all Panni's LED's seem to want to look like the back of a Samsung, remember that there is an adapter in the box so you can use a Scart, but frankly, I suspect that HDMI is the way most people have now gone anyway, for recording, blu-ray, etc.

BTW - not everyone knows this, but JL is never undersold up to 28 days after purchase, so if it does drop below £599.95 in that time, tell us! I certainly tell my customers, even if they are not aware of it.

[RogerThornhill]

Mike, how about this one? what do you think?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-KDL55EX...Y/ref=pd_ybh_1

[Steve Crook]

Let us know what you think of it. Its one of the new batch of this years TV's (its that time of year again...) and is apparently 50hz screen with 3x LED blinking (hence the 150hz) - I'd be interested in how good the rendering is, compared with a standard 100hz. Panasonic LED panels are usually very good, but play around with the settings to get it right for your room (including frame processing). Plasma starts at 42in, so LED is standard for 37". Since 37" is always a restrictive size in terms of range anyway, the Panni was a good choice.

HD TV is good for everything, although you get to see everyones lines, so it has its downsides...The Full HD screen (1080) is of course what you need for Blu-Ray, and you'll get a sdlightly better picture from it anyway, compared with HD Ready. Wifi-ready, but if you have your hub nearby, use a LAN, and then use Iplayer, etc (online not being a Panasonic strongpoint, but some stuff, nevertheless). Good picture, easy to use instructions (apparently some of the Panni's talk to you when your setting up, if you have sight problems, which is a clever touch) and a good remote. Since all Panni's LED's seem to want to look like the back of a Samsung, remember that there is an adapter in the box so you can use a Scart, but frankly, I suspect that HDMI is the way most people have now gone anyway, for recording, blu-ray, etc.

BTW - not everyone knows this, but JL is never undersold up to 28 days after purchase, so if it does drop below £599.95 in that time, tell us! I certainly tell my customers, even if they are not aware of it.

Contrary to popular belief (by some) I don't live in a large mansion so anything at 40" or above would be a bit silly. Even 37" is pushing it a bit.

I have Wi-fi in the house so will be able to pick up on that. I ordered the Wi-fi adaptor dongle as well. We'll see on Thursday

Thanks for the reminder about "Never knowingly undersold". I see that Amazon quote an RRP of £554.17 and have it on offer for £473.84

Steve

[MikeB]

Samsung do a 51" screen (its a 50" plus 1 - Samsung seriously meant this), while Panasonic continue with 50", and of course 55" screens are around in both plasma and LED. Samsung is seemingly a little embarrsed about its plasma's, and would rather talk about their LED's (which are very good). This is a shame, because they are not bad at all. They are also relatively thin on the ground, and I seldom get to see them. We currently have last years D series (Samsung's 2011 crop are D, the 2012 models coming out now are E) 51" 8000 series in store, which is obviously a refugee, since our buyers never bought that model (the LED model was going to be more popular). Its very nice, and stands up pretty well next to the Panasonics, and has of course the very sleek Samsung look and excellent Smart TV functions. This years model is about £1700 (at present), and the E has of course the motion/voice stuff of the LED (which is £2300-2600 in a 55").

The Panasonic GT30 is (I think) a better picture, although I'm comparing a 46" against a 51". Their panals are very good, although I have to admit that their new LED 46" (and only a 150hz screen) was very good against the plasmas for black levels, although not quite there.

Certainly at this size, your unlikely to find a 2D TV, or at least one in which you save very much over the 3D. Last years S30/ST30 faceoff was a case in point. The 2D S30 panel was grey (its actually called a 'grey panel'), and was frankly not very good. The ST30 was a very good panel, with much better blacks (and was very well reviewed). The ST30 was 3D, but it was the panel itself which was better. For a 42", the difference was £50, or about 10%. I tended to point out the difference in quality to customers, although one or two did buy the cheaper one, but most looked, and saw that it was better. At £550 (at its lowest point, and we couldn't keep up with demand), it was a bargain.

If your quick, you might pick up an ST30 or GT30 relatively cheap. I just sold an ex-display VT30 42" at £999, and we had a 42" GT30 for about £529 (ex-display and missing the instructions and remote - easily fixed). Thats a very good deal for a TV which is award winning and was £999 until recently. You might find something similar in a 50", although remember your going to need to be about 150" away to get the right distance.

You could wait for the ST/GT/VT50's to come in, and look at the Samsungs too. The flood is just starting, and prices will not stabalise for a while, so look at the moment. The ST50 in a 50" is listed by Panasonic at £1500 at the moment. It will come down. Don't buy the UT50 if you can avoid it - its not the best panel, and the set is a price sniper, not a quality sniper.

My personal advice is always to have a look at it, don't be hurried, and get the right size. You will know when its the right one, and certainly don't worry about 3D - its basically now standard anyway. Do your homework first, and you will know what to ask. Frankly, LED or plasma is not worth worrying about - judge the set on its merits and how you feel about it.

[RogerThornhill]

Mike, thanks for such a comprehensive reply with all that good advice. I will have to get to a few stores and see what is on offer. I have to say that I can't see much difference in the look of the TVs, they look the same to me but I'm much more interested in the pictures. I want to get an LED, the plasmas that I have seen don't seem to have such a crisp picture as the LEDs or the LCDs. I was tempted to order one of the Sony or Samsung 55" models but I thought that it would be wiser to actually take a look at them. My current TV is a 42" LG, I ordered that online and I have been very happy with it but maybe I shouldn't push my luck. Thanks again.

[Merton Park]

If you are in London, Tottenham Court Road seems to be having a particularly tough time and there seem to be some very good deals on TV's at the moment.

From a personal point of view, Panasonic Plasma's are hard to beat and I have nothing but praise for them. Good luck with the search.

[RogerThornhill]

If you are in London, Tottenham Court Road seems to be having a particularly tough time and there seem to be some very good deals on TV's at the moment.

From a personal point of view, Panasonic Plasma's are hard to beat and I have nothing but praise for them. Good luck with the search.

Thanks, I'm going to need some luck ploughing through all the different models. Buying a new TV used to be a simple process but not any more.

[MikeB]

Always look at the TV before you buy, if you can. Most of us don't buy a suit or shoes on the Internet and expect it to fit, so why should you spend a lot more money, sight unseen? Our store has a small collection of TV's and other equipment sent from our online operation (which is actually really good), which have been returned, often because the customer did not known what they were buying, or the size of the set when they actually got it home.

My standard advice is always to measure, and get the right size. Then have a look at reviews and whats out there, and see what you want. Once you have the basics, then go and look, and look at SD, not just HD and Blu-Ray. And ask questions!

Panasonic and Samsung are the leaders at the moment. Sound will be marginal, so think about some way of improving that, and don't forget about how your going to record (the thing people should think about during digital switchover) and watch discs. And think ahead. My store has a five year guarentee - I like to think 3 years ahead as to what the customer will need.

And like it as a piece of furniture, your going to have it in your room for a fair while, so you might as well not hate it. This is where Samsung LED's do very well (although everone seems to be copying them this year). A customer last week described the D700 as 'the TV equivalent of an infinity pool'. A very good phrase, and one which I will be using.

'The LED is slightly sharper, the Plasma is slightly deeper'. Quote from a female customer as to the differences between the two some years ago. I of course stole such a concise phrase...

Buying a new TV used to be a simple process but not any more.

. Its not much easier explaining about them! So much has changed even in the last 3 years. LED, OLED, wifi, smart TV, 3D, movement recognition and voice control, etc. But if you take your time and get good advice, it will be fine.

[Merton Park]

Just come across the following review in Computer Shopper under the Home Cinema section:

Panasonic Viera TX-P42GT30B
£699 inc VAT

Panasonic's plasma TV's are all fantastic, but the P42GT30Bis the best of the bunch. Its light reflecting screen coating gives darker images real punch, with vivid images that are vibrant yet still incredibly accurate in either 2D or 3D modes. It has plenty of inputs,access to Panasonic's Smart TV system and Free View HD and FreeSat tuners. It strikes the perfect balance between performance, high-end features and price. Put simply, it's almost impossible to find a better quality picture for less.

[MikeB]

Its a very nice bit of kit (it won What Hifi TV of the Year in 2011), but getting one is now very difficult. They are no longer on our website (The GT50 is now listed, although its not in store yet), so my suggestion would be to get to a store and see if they have any left, even an ex-display(and of course look at it - a review is one persons point of view, and its you who will be looking a it). Frankly, I though the GT30 in a 46in was better last week than the ex-display VT30 which I sold, but the customer prefered the VT. On the other hand, the E5 LED in a 47in next to it was very good, and thats not even the DT series.

Anyway, see if you can find one in the size you want, and hopefully you'll get a good deal.

[Steve Crook]

So now that I've got the new Panasonic TV delivered, unpacked, installed & set up - what do people do with these huge TVs when they're switched off?
This one is only 37" but it still dominates the room like the big black monolith from 2001 on its side
I can't imagine how people who buy the really big (40" and above) screens get on. Do they all live in vast mansions?
(Or do they never turn them off?)

Steve

[MikeB]

This one is only 37" but it still dominates the room like the big black monolith from 2001 on its side

A lot of people say the same thing when they come into the shop, but trust me, you'll get used to it remarkably quickly. As long as the size is right for the room, you'll be fine. Just think how big your old (CRT?) TV was. If it was a 26", then it was actually about 32-34" wide in total (my 21" is 2 foot wide, and even more deep). Your TV is 34" wide!
Sit back and enjoy it, since you now get to see BBC newsreaders in HD, which is not always a pretty sight!