1.66: presentaton on DVD

[JamesM]

1.78:1 takes up the whole of my 16x9 screen
2.35:1 gives a letterbox effect on my 16x9 screen

but 1.66:1 presentaions always take up the whole of my screen (eg City of the Dead (1960), Peeping Tom (1960)). I would like to see two bars at the side. i have a Cambridge Audio DVD player (which seems to lift evrything up slightly too). What ratio do you get with such 1.66:1 presentations.

[sanndevil]

Hmmm - the whole field of aspect ratios is very tricky, so I too would appreciate some feedback here. My understanding is the displayed aspect ratio is a function of your TV set, not your DVD player. Therefore you need to set that correctly to stand a chance of watching something in the correct ratio.

Now, if you are referring to the Film Four broadcast of Peeping Tom, things get trickier. Film Four appear to broadcast in a squeezed 4:3 format (i.e a 4:3 film will come out correctly, whilst your TV should automatically adjust itself to widescreen for a widescreen production) rather than a true 16:9 format. So, what happens when they broadcast an intermediate ratio? I can't go and check my copy of Peeping Tom (I'm recording a Marilyn Monroe bio at present) but I would imagine they would either pan and scan or full frame to 4:3, or perhaps they would expand the picture to fill the screen at the expense of cropping the top and bottom of the picture.

Either way, I don't think it is possible to view a true 1.66 ratio on a widescreen TV set.

That's my starter for ten - more than happy for someone to happen along and tell me I'm talking b*ll*cks!

Cheers
Nigel

[Lord Brett]

A friend of mine recently bought a Toshiba DVD player which has a 'Reverse Zoom' function which he swears by. Apparently on every disc he's tried it on, with various aspect ratios, substantial extra picture area is revealed.

[JamesM]

Actually, viewing tv with a 'freeview' box, the pictures fits the screen. I have seen films and even tv programmes (Insp Morse) in the 1.66:1 format. The world cup (football) matches were broadcast in some ratio approaching 1.66:1 only whenever they were shown on ITV some kaleidoscope of shades of orange would hug the sides instead of the usual black bars. On DVD, only a preview of a documentary on Abbey Lincoln shows in this format. And that is using the full screen setting, not the natural widescreen setting, on the DVD player. In order to do this properly they need to donate some of the space on the anamorphic setting to the black bars, which at least would be easier than storing the 'black bars' from a 4:3 presentation.

I think I know what I am talking about.

[JamesM]

Lord Brett

what was this Toshiba (model)? I am very keen to have this kind of zoom. I am a little more clued up now.

[KevMc]

Hi, reading your discussion with interest. I have a Toshiba SD330E which has the reverse zoom or 'Shrink' facility. It basically reveals the overscan on DVDs. My TV is a 32" Panasonic and I have found this function particularly useful with 1.33:1 transfers on older non widescreen films or TV shows. By engaging it, then changing my TV aspect ratio from 'Auto' to '14:9', the image fills the screen from top to bottom (hiding the overscan as it always would). However, the overscan at the sides is completely revealed giving all the picture information, and thereby slightly narrower pillarboxes at the edges. Of course your TV needs a '14:9' option to view it successfully. This is how the BBC broadcast 4:3 material on digital. Hope this has been useful.

[Jim]

Originally posted by JamesM@Nov 17 2004, 03:31 PM Actually, viewing tv with a 'freeview' box, the pictures fits the screen. I have seen films and even tv programmes (Insp Morse) in the 1.66:1 format. The world cup (football) matches were broadcast in some ratio approaching 1.66:1 only whenever they were shown on ITV some kaleidoscope of shades of orange would hug the sides instead of the usual black bars. On DVD, only a preview of a documentary on Abbey Lincoln shows in this format. And that is using the full screen setting, not the natural widescreen setting, on the DVD player. In order to do this properly they need to donate some of the space on the anamorphic setting to the black bars, which at least would be easier than storing the 'black bars' from a 4:3 presentation. I think I know what I am talking about.

----------------------------------------------------
My 5 year old wide screen tele has 5 modes but you have to pick wide-screen mode to see everything; captions,etc.

Sometimes when dvds playing, it alternates between two modes; which ever screen you select, it switches between the last mode selected and the one you choose to view. It doesn't do it on 'expensive' dvds, ie Harry Potter, etc. But then it behaved itself on a really cheepo dvd horror classic dvd!!! Long live tapes!!!!!

[Stephen Pickard]

Originally posted by JamesM@Nov 16 2004, 10:38 PM 1.78:1 takes up the whole of my 16x9 screen 2.35:1 gives a letterbox effect on my 16x9 screen but 1.66:1 presentaions always take up the whole of my screen (eg City of the Dead (1960), Peeping Tom (1960)). I would like to see two bars at the side. i have a Cambridge Audio DVD player (which seems to lift evrything up slightly too). What ratio do you get with such 1.66:1 presentations.

When encoding films in 16x9 that are of an aspect ratio that is taller than 1.78:1, the application of side bars are necessary. I supervised the transfer of "CITY OF THE DEAD" at the Machine Room in London for VCI in the US, and to retain the aspect ratio of 1.66:1 whilst being able to take advantage of the 16x9 technology it was necessary to side matte the picture.
The image looks superb on a progressive scan/component monitor but when the image is down-converted onto a 4x3 display, the picture is viewed with black mattes all around the image, not a very desirable way to view the film. This is probably why Warner and MGM, now Sony, will not encode any films with an aspect ratio of 1.66 in 16x9, only in 4x3, which then does not require side mattes. The problem with this is when blown up to 16x9 you lose a little information top and bottom. British TV's have a 14x9 mode which helps the problem.
If "CITY OF THE DEAD" takes up the whole of your monitor and the side mattes are not visible, you have too much overscan and will need a technician to optimize the image.

[JamesM]

Cheers Stepehn

I shall have a quick review of the City of the Dead DVD I have.

[Liger]

(JamesM @ Nov 16 2004, 10:38 PM) 1.78:1 takes up the whole of my 16x9 screen 2.35:1 gives a letterbox effect on my 16x9 screen but 1.66:1 presentaions always take up the whole of my screen (eg City of the Dead (1960), Peeping Tom (1960)). I would like to see two bars at the side. i have a Cambridge Audio DVD player (which seems to lift evrything up slightly too). What ratio do you get with such 1.66:1 presentations.

I see that this question was posed almost exactly a year ago now, but I wanted to chime in with an answer anyway, in case anyone is still interested...

The ratio of a full frame anamorphic presentation is 1.78:1 (as mentioned above). Within this frame, both 2.35:1 and 1.85:1 are presented with black borders above and below in order to preserve the original aspect ratio.

Sometimes, films intended for exhibition in a 1.85:1 are presented "open matte" (which is to say the picture area at the top and bottom which would originally have been masked off by a projectionist is revealed). Unless this leads to the exposing of boom mics and other behind-the-scenes information which would disrupt viewing, this is commonly considered to be an acceptable practice (especially as the difference betweem 1.85:1 and 1.78:1 is so marginal anyway). This explains how some 1.85:1 films can be presented as full frame anamorphic (or 16:9) on DVD without having the edges trimmed.

The way in which ratios which are "taller" than the 1.78:1 allows at full frame (such as 1.33:1, 1.55:1 and the more common 1.66:1) can be presented anamorphically is simple: they are "pillarboxed". With a 1.66:1 ratio, this means that black bars are used to border the image left and right (rather than top and bottom, as is the case with 1.85:1 or 2.35:1).

This "pillarboxing" is often not visible on domestic TV monitors as the edges of the image are usually hidden by the TV's overscanning. This is where the "reverse zooming" capability afforded by some DVD players, or the DVD drive on your computer can come in handy, as both forms of playback will reveal the entirety of the DVD's encoded image (including the full extent of any bordering or boxing outside of the "safe" area of the screen).

Hope that all makes sense...