J.Edgar

[GRAEME]

Sorry, but as a history graduate and history lover

An expert walks among us - respect, respect...

Honestly!

Stated Britain was a fascist state.
Regarded all democracies as fascist.

Well, fair point really. Show me a democracy anyway! All the western democracies are run for the benefit of the rich and powerful - elections achieve no real change to the status quo. Police and military use force to keep the public in order - just look how they handle strikes and demonstrations.

Look like democracy to anybody round here?

Free-speech? Sure! But expect to be wire-tapped or blacklisted...

Democracy has long been a con-trick played on the people by the capitalists. That's just the way it is.

As for those guys being unopposed to violent means... I don't see any peaceful way to break out of the present system. And playing the game isn't getting us anywhere. I favour large-scale civil disobedience myself, but I can respect the arguments of those who see armed struggle as the only answer.

And your 'always rightwing' comment is the rather simplistic comment I would expect from a precocious 15 yr old or Rik from the Young Ones.

Aw shucks, I disappointed you! I had no idea you were following me so closely (should I be worried? ). But seriously, I wasn't being simplistic, unless you call truth simplistic.

[icetorch]

I must have gone briefly cross-eyed while reading this thread, because I was sure I saw "Gerald Likell loves this."

[716Jones]

Isn't Winston Churchill quoted as saying that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried?

Another quote, this time attributed to Ken Livingstone - "If voting changed anything, they'd abolish it".

One man's totalitarianism is another man's democracy.

[orpheum2]

J>Edgar is clearly not a film that is interesting the public.It is down to one screening a day from 3 in the local Vue.W.E. has virtually disappeared from view after one week.

[GRAEME]

Isn't Winston Churchill quoted as saying that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried?

Another quote, this time attributed to Ken Livingstone - "If voting changed anything, they'd abolish it".

One man's totalitarianism is another man's democracy.

Obviously, there are degrees...

Nazi Germany and Stalinist USSR were much, much nastier. Even the very limited democracy we enjoy is infinitely more preferable to genuine totalitarianism.

What I find amusing is that simply to list the crimes committed by democratic states like the US or the UK since the end of WWII is to leave yourself open to allegations of hysteria, madness or being a conspiracy theorist. Just to factually list them! Harold Pinter was excellent on this topic in his Nobel Prize lecture - check it out!

The prevailing hegemony works so well, we can't even acknowledge historical facts without questioning our sanity for beilieving ill of the good 'ol western democracies. Torture and illegal arrests? Can't happen. Illegal invasions? No! Assasination and terrorism? You're havin' a laugh...

Cameron and Obama are able to decry other nations for human rights abuses - with straight faces!

The fact that our societies are run for the benefit of the rich is one of these "inconvenient truths" - the evidence is everywhere but nobody can really believe it. People who go on about it are "nuts".

That's how it works - hegemony. It's genius.

[716Jones]

Obviously, there are degrees...

Nazi Germany and Stalinist USSR were much, much nastier. Even the very limited democracy we enjoy is infinitely more preferable to genuine totalitarianism.

What I find amusing is that simply to list the crimes committed by democratic states like the US or the UK since the end of WWII is to leave yourself open to allegations of hysteria, madness or being a conspiracy theorist. Just to factually list them! Harold Pinter was excellent on this topic in his Nobel Prize lecture - check it out!

The prevailing hegemony works so well, we can't even acknowledge historical facts without questioning our sanity for beilieving ill of the good 'ol western democracies. Torture and illegal arrests? Can't happen. Illegal invasions? No! Assasination and terrorism? You're havin' a laugh...

Cameron and Obama are able to decry other nations for human rights abuses - with straight faces!

The fact that our societies are run for the benefit of the rich is one of these "inconvenient truths" - the evidence is everywhere but nobody can really believe it. People who go on about it are "nuts".

That's how it works - hegemony. It's genius.

If you haven't already read it, you should try reading 'The Great War For Civilization' by Robert Fisk. It's an account of the west's involvement in the middle east and makes shocking reading. You come away from it wondering if it's possible for any politician not to have blood on their hands!