ChristineCB

Maybe someone could invite GW over and tell him it's a photo-op. "Stand up against that cliffside, and when the plane flies directly overhead, wave like crazy! And pay no attention to whatever it drops..."

Marky B

I think with Peter Jackson,the film is in safe hands.
Ta Ta
Marky B

I once shot an elephant in my pyjamas - how he got in my pyjamas,I'll never know

bloodworm

Why ???? Why MUST the dogs name be changed. History is set in stone and no one can change it. Not liking an event or name from the past does not mean its wrong. Niger in its latin form means black and the dog was named nigger because he was black, and the code word for the breach in the Mohne was nigger, "facts". For christs sake if we are to tell an historical event in film then at least lets get it accurate otherwise we will have another load of fiction.

The one that gets away is always the biggest but not always the best !!

Moor Larkin

Because it would just be misunderstood by a modern audience. The film could then become immersed in politicking over the word, to the detriment of the history. The use of the word in the original movie is fair enough - anyone taking offence would have to look up their history and accept how men of that time thought and spoke. That is history.

To use it in a modern version would imply a modern interpretation and just be utterly confusing, unless some narrative preamble was inserted to explain it, which would be necessarily patronising.

I think there are likely to be some critics who will question the morals of flooding populated valleys, drowning civilians, to dubious overall military effect and this will lead to enough revisionist thinking without dragging in the nitty-gritty of racial epithets.......

[code]http://www.flickr.com/photos/29487363@N02/sets/72157606700675506/code]

ChristineCB

I think the name should be changed to something like DARN BUSTERS. I get so tired of endless cussing. But actually, it will probably be changed to the opposite polarity...

GODDAM M(%&$*&$%(ER PENCIL-NECKED GEEK BUSTERS

I mean, with a name like that, how bad could it be?

I'm also thinking that the planes shouldn't actually bomb it with explosives - that's SO violent.

What about sprinkling it with salt? Oh wait... that's the remedy to stop flying. Hmmm... well, I'm sure the PC-folks will think of something.

Ah - they changed the enemies' name to The German Nicey-s. Oh yes. That makes it all so much better. And in this film, only half the people are killed!

bloodworm

So right, So Right

The one that gets away is always the biggest but not always the best !!

Steve Crook

I love it. As we all know, many Americans seem to think that salt is the most deadly substance in the universe

Steve

ChristineCB

Listen - salt has a very terrible and profound affect on politicians and other slimeys. The American Republican, often noticed for the trail they leave, changed their logo to a cartoonish elephant after their annelid drawings were originally giving their opponents too many easy clues for victory.

The American Democrat just stayed with their jackass.

bloodworm

Moor Larkin,

Sorry but I cannot agree with your reasoning on this topic. How on earth can telling history accurately be detrimental. That’s pure folly. If we are to educate the modern audience about historical events through the media of film then we must be accurate with the facts and hence make them aware of how life was in the period being portrayed.
By hiding behind the curtain of political correctness we are denying the truth and if we alter facts in films we are doing the same. If the codeword for D Day, the largest assault force ever assembled was nigger would it be right to change it now, not in my book.. It was Overlord and the Mohne breach was nigger as was the dogs name, not a nice word in today’s society but common in the 40s and no matter where you hide you cannot change that.
As for the morals of flooding populated valleys drowning civilians, to dubious overall military effect you are moving into the realms of discussing the whole ethics of war itself. Dresden, The London Blitz, Essen, The Somme and many more were all futile loss of life, some enlisted and some civillian, but we cant deny it happened just as the dogs name and the code word happened. Deny history and you deny future generations of the knowledge of what it was like and why some things have changed. The human race is still killing itself in futile wars today.
If we are to cut from films the things we dislike then where do we stop. Maybe we should not show the loss of a Lancaster or the devastation of the Ruhr valley because of the death involved or for the animal rightists the death of the dog, they all happened but some may not like to admit it.. Cut the film at the point the bomb was perfected and go straight to Churchill using the success of the raid as propaganda in the states. What you are talking about is politically correct censorship at the cost of the truth..
Tell it how it was or don’t tell it at all.

The one that gets away is always the biggest but not always the best !!

Moor Larkin

I'm only talking about the name of a dog. The dam breach codename was simply the use of the self-same dog's name, so changing that would be irrelevant. I would not propose that anything else be changed, I was only pointing out that other 'PC' controversies would be likely anyhow, perhaps rightly so; if history is of any real use, it is only that we might learn from it.

The rights or wrongs of war and bombing are so important to any debate that to create a further argument about the name of a bloody dog would cheapen the important historical facts not embellish them. The dog might easily have been called Blackie - it's irrelevant to the real story, just a historical quirk that could cause amusement or offence in equal measure. But why risk needless offence? How much 'history' have the football supporters who hum the old theme-tune with their arms outspread for the entertainment of German fans actually absorbed? Why give them a perfectly historical reason to run round shouting Nigger at people as well?

:blink:

[code]http://www.flickr.com/photos/29487363@N02/sets/72157606700675506/code]

Steve Crook

Does it work on salesmen as well?

Steve

bloodworm

I have to agree with your views that history is there to be learnt from, problem is with the events around the world at the moment we don’t seem to be doing that.
With regards to the irrelevancy of changing the code word and dogs name I cannot. You will see from my avatar, “G P Gibson” I am a dam busters fanatic, my den is adorned with pictures and other memorabilia and to say that these facts are irrelevant may be your view but definitely not mine. If you have read this whole topic you will be aware that I am totally against this remake and changing the detail is a major part of that objection. In the original, one of the most profound statements was when the tele operator took the message and shouted out “its Nigger” no music, no further vocabulary just that word…..The dog might well have been called blackie and then he would have shouted “its blackie” and we would not be having this discussion but he wasn’t, that makes the dogs name and codeword very relevant.There are those who are perfectionists who strve to get every detail right and then there is the "that will do brigade". who make an effort but are not too bothered about the end result as long as it is ok. By saying these details are irrelavant i assume you fall into the latter catagory fot the sake of PC.
As for racial hatred in sport, it was reported today that Monty Panesar was racially abused in Australia so I don’t think that the sporting yobbos need any help from the film industry.

NIGGER

The one that gets away is always the biggest but not always the best !!

Moor Larkin

I would agree with you. It was such a good movie that I cannot see any major artistic or historical purpose would be served by 'remaking' it.

Surely it was the emotional impact upon Richard Todd that was significant, regardless of the dog's name.

From the point of view of a pure remake of the film the name is unavoidable but the overall story of the men and machines would not necessarily be affected by the change of name of the dog. Perhaps the real solution will be as another in this Thread suggested: that the story could be looked at in a different context. The original was as much about Barnes Wallace and the technology as it was about the Lancasters and their crews. It might also be interesting to know a bit more about the Krupps' Ruhr-based military-industrial complex that was manned by 'slave-workers' and enabled the armoury of the Nazi war-machine.

[code]http://www.flickr.com/photos/29487363@N02/sets/72157606700675506/code]

bloodworm

[quote=Moor Larkin;43162]I would agree with you. It was such a good movie that I cannot see any major artistic or historical purpose would be served by 'remaking' it.

From the point of view of a pure remake of the film the name is unavoidable quote]

If we must have this remake then in your statement you have the answer to the whole problem we are discussing. Completely avoid the dogs name in the film, use alternatives like "here boy" or "you know my dog died this morning" and make no reference to the code words by side tracking, i/e...they've got it, or the Mohners gone...and there is the answer. Every body is as happy as wew will ever be.......

The one that gets away is always the biggest but not always the best !!

ChristineCB

This thread reads like so many of us are enthusiastic about all the changes this remake could accomplish.

I've already suggested a new, more modern and contemporary name. In fact, a couple of them.

What about suggesting some other changes? For example...

First, why do we have to fly all that way to blow some dams?

Since we're in a global economy, can't the new film pretend that all of our power-grids are truly interconnected, so if Churchill really wants to tweak Adolph's nose, couldn't he take out a more local dams?

This way, the Lancasters wouldn't waste all that petrol in flying time. I mean, those things were REAL gas-hogs.

If we want this remake to be politically correct (and gosh, who doesn't?!!), why not reduce flight time?

We could change locations entirely. And maybe, instead of flying, what about getting a truck, load it up and drive it to the dam?

We could also say that driver was union, so we'd please Labor, too!

If Winnie would have done this, he could have avoided all the anti-aircraft fire, the wasted electricity on searchlights - PLUS saving all that petrol.

Any other suggested changes? I'm still mulling over the whole "why destroy dams at all" change. Couldn't we just drop leaflets and ask them to shut the dams down for, oh, the foreseeable future? This whole busting thing - it sounds so - ewww - violent!