The Dam Busters remake

[Wee Sonny MacGregor]

A pal of mine saw the digitally restored version earlier this week and said it was terrific.

By the way - the dog used in the film didn't have a "stage name" but shared the same monicker as Guy Gibson's dog.

[orpheum]

Originally Posted by Steve Crook Surely there would have been flak as the bombers were heard near the dams, or definitely after the first bombing run. Or did the flak gunner have to wait for orders from Berlin before he could fire? Al Murray was on the British Film Forever documentary saying how he'd been flown over the dambusters route and right up to the dam. They flew at the appropriate height and as close as they could get to the right speed and Al said that he felt very exposed for a very long time Steve

They were lightly defended as they were not expecting them to be attacked.They were not aware of the invention of bouncing bombs and of course conventional bombs would have been of no use against the dams.

[Santonix]

Originally Posted by orpheum They were lightly defended as they were not expecting them to be attacked.They were not aware of the invention of bouncing bombs and of course conventional bombs would have been of no use against the dams.

There were 10 guns on or around The Mohne Dam, Hopgood's Lancaster was hit and crashed just beyond the dam. Gibson flew higher and ahead of each Lancaster that was on a bombing run to draw the flack away from the attacking aircraft. The Eder Dam had no gun defences .

[ChristineCB]

I was always surprised that Mosquitos didn't fly several 'lull them to sleep' fighter sweeps in the weeks before the raid. Occasionally do fly-by's and shoot up the flak installations, hopefully making the AA gunners less interested in hopping out of bed when only a few Allied planes suddenly appeared at the far end of the lakes. "Oh, just Mosquitos again... let 'em think they destroyed us, let's not show our position..." Kind of the Enola Gay/Lone B-29 tactic.

[orpheum]

ironically it was in a mosquito that Gibson had his fatal crash in 1944.A seal on the fuel tank was faulty and he simply ran out of fuel in mid air.

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by orpheum They were lightly defended as they were not expecting them to be attacked.They were not aware of the invention of bouncing bombs and of course conventional bombs would have been of no use against the dams.

What about the man from the Carling advert that caught the bombs like a goalkeeper?



Steve

[Moor Larkin]

Originally Posted by samkydd As for the dog's name, why have a dog in a remake at all? It was hardly crucial to the plot, you may as well give him a cat called Ginger or something or a hamster called Hammy!

The dog did perform an important role in pointing up Gibson's humanity and compassion. Surrounded by colleagues who could be dead tomorrow, the stiff upper lip was essential to sustain a man's sanity; but Gibson could afford to be soppy over his dog, knowing it would be there tomorrow, and, almost as important, know that the dog would neither worry about him; nor miss him too much if it fell to another to keep it fed.

I'm not sure a hamster would cut it. And a cat would be far too bright to get itself run over.

If the price of avoiding the dog-gone name problem is to give Gibson some 'phoney' affaire with a member of the ground-staff, I think I'd prefer they call the dog Fido and the codeword, Carling.

[Aaryk Noctivagus]

Originally Posted by Moor Larkin ...Gibson could afford to be soppy over his dog, knowing it would be there tomorrow, and, almost as important, know that the dog would neither worry about him; nor miss him too much if it fell to another to keep it fed.

Hey Moor... have you ever owned a dog? Dogs can get very attached to people, and they can pine and refuse to eat for missing a beloved owner who doesn't return. I've known dogs to howl or cry at the window even when their owner goes out to do the shopping. Yes, not every dog is like this... but I have known several just like that. Dogs bond with people.

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by Moor Larkin And a cat would be far too bright to get itself run over.

A dog looks up to you.
A cat looks down on you.
But a pig looks you squarely in the eye as an equal

Steve

[Aaryk Noctivagus]

Originally Posted by Steve Crook A dog looks up to you. A cat looks down on you. But a pig looks you squarely in the eye as an equal

A dog bites you in the leg.
A cat scratches you on the leg.
A pig returns to its wallowing - lol

[Moor Larkin]

Originally Posted by Aaryk Noctivagus Dogs bond with people.

I love the line "lingered near the spot".......(ie. he kept coming back for meals)......

I see he must have enjoyed his pining, for he lived another 14 years!!! How old was that doggone dog in the first place?

[Aaryk Noctivagus]

Originally Posted by Moor Larkin I love the line "lingered near the spot".......(ie. he kept coming back for meals)...... I see he must have enjoyed his pining, for he lived another 14 years!!! How old was that doggone dog in the first place?

Must be nice to be so cynical with so little evidence. The story has been embellished by the wishful thinking and soft-hearted, but the core history doesn't deserve such cynicism. Pining is not always a terminal condition.

The dog left the graveside for meals (near the grave) and possibly shelter during difficult weather, but returned to the graveside otherwise. That is truely said to be 'lingering near the spot'.

Originally Posted by Moor Larkin How old was that doggone dog in the first place?

The dog was approximately 2 years old when his master died.

Whilst the initial behaviour might have been triggered by pining, over the period of the 14 years it possibly turned to territorial routine.

Oh and Moor... in my post, I wasn't talking about Greyfriar's Bobby.

[Moor Larkin]

Originally Posted by Aaryk Noctivagus I wasn't talking about Greyfriar's Bobby.

Nor me about dogs. I was more interested in the way the film was perhaps trying to represent the psychology of wartime airmen, who might yearn for the comfort of emotional ties but couldn't afford their luxury. A pet is a pet, not a life partner....... at least they were then. Certainly the movie version of Guy got over the death of the dog a lot quicker than Blackfriars Bobby got over his loss.

Of course the 196 page biography, mentioned elsewhere, might reveal that the whole thing was a fiction beefed up for the movie, to avoid treading on the sensitivities of the 1955 censor.

[Aaryk Noctivagus]

Originally Posted by Moor Larkin Originally Posted by Aaryk Noctivagus I wasn't talking about Greyfriar's Bobby. Nor me about dogs.

Originally Posted by Moor Larkin in the post I responded to ...Gibson could afford to be soppy over his dog, knowing it would be there tomorrow, and, almost as important, know that the dog would neither worry about him; nor miss him too much if it fell to another to keep it fed.

What you were saying was that a dog would not worry or miss his owner too much and that a dog was concerned only with being fed. This is not an accurate picture of the characteristics of domestic dogs.

You could respond that you were talking about Gibson's dog in particular, but since you did not know this particular animal nor its owner so intimately, you would be just as incorrect in saying such.

The section of your post I was responding to was absolutely regarding dogs.

[Moor Larkin]

WORKING WITH GUY GIBSON
By this time I was a F/Lt or Sq Leader and the whole squadron was moved to Syerston in Leicestershire between Nottingham and Newark. During my time there I flew on the last trip Guy Gibson made before he went on to the famous 'Dam Buster' squadron and I subsequently joined the Pathfinders.

Guy was 'warlike' and all for his aircrews. His Nigger used to come into the mess and people used to put small amount of beer down for him to drink. After this he would go back to his 'room' with a slight roll.

Kath had moved to the Farm enar the Lera Gate Inn at Coningsby and was working in Boston. She had to move again to a small town near Syerston and I occasionally got home to join her - although Gibson frowned on such visits, we were supposed to concentrate on flying and nothing else, although an occasional visit to the well known hostelries in Nottingham seemed OK.
BBC - WW2 People's War - I was Guy Gibson's Friend and Worked on the First Radar Navigation and Early H25 TV and the Pathfinders Squadron