The Dam Busters remake

[Jim Morris]

Perhaps they'll concentrate on the utter pointlessness of war. But if they change the name of the dog then they'll change the story and history: that is not artistic licence.
One thing they should do is show the slaughter of innocent civilians in the Ruhr valley, I thought the killing of civilians was agaist the 'rules' or war or the Geneva Convention thing.
I remember Richard Burton and Sophia Loaren in the remake of Brief Encounter - I think that film contributed more to the development of the remote control with a big red 'off' button than any other film.
A few suggestions:
Susan George as Barnes Wallis
Peggy Mount as Guy Gibson
Steve Redgrave as Dingy Young
Prince William as Micky Martin
Kate Moss as Mutt Summers
Timothy McVey as Bob Hay
Special Effects by Triang Hornby
John Major as Best Boy
Music by John Barry and Barry John
Airborne Sequesces by Airfix
Directed by Pam Seckinpah
Produced by Favourite Dross
Distributed by Ducks and Drakes

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by Jim Morris Perhaps they'll concentrate on the utter pointlessness of war. But if they change the name of the dog then they'll change the story and history: that is not artistic licence.

How does changing the name of the dog change the story?
The story is about the development of the bomb and the skilled and brave men that carried out the mission. I don't see the dog has any relevant part in that story

Steve

[Freddy]

I think I mentioned a couple of years back that in the ITV version of The Dambusters they had censored the dog's name. That, I thought then and still do, was wrong.

So long as the the new version is a great film, well written and acted, then I'll be happy. Film is to entertain, and if in entertaining it encourages people to read about the actual event then that's bonus.

Lawrence of Arabia is factual wrong in numerous areas, but that didn't stop it being a great film. And I'm sure it encouraged people to explore the character and area further.

Freddy

[christoph404]

Originally Posted by Freddy I think I mentioned a couple of years back that in the ITV version of The Dambusters they had censored the dog's name. That, I thought then and still do, was wrong. So long as the the new version is a great film, well written and acted, then I'll be happy. Film is to entertain, and if in entertaining it encourages people to read about the actual event then that's bonus. Lawrence of Arabia is factual wrong in numerous areas, but that didn't stop it being a great film. And I'm sure it encouraged people to explore the character and area further. Freddy

As I mentioned earlier,The Group Index for Censorship lambasted ITV in The Guardian newspaper for their act of censorship in editing any reference to the poor dog! They called it "unnecessary" and "ridiculous".

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by christoph404 As I mentioned earlier,The Group Index for Censorship lambasted ITV in The Guardian newspaper for their act of censorship in editing any reference to the poor dog! They called it "unnecessary" and "ridiculous".

Well whoever they are, they should know better. Unless they're deliberately trying to stir up trouble, or publicity for themselves.

I ask again...
How does changing the name of the dog change the story?
The story is about the development of the bomb and the skilled and brave men that carried out the mission. I don't see the dog has any relevant part in that story

Steve

[rskershaw]

The name of the dog doesn't change the story, but we live in very racially sensitive times.

When did censorship become index linked?

[christoph404]

Originally Posted by Steve Crook Well whoever they are, they should know better. Unless they're deliberately trying to stir up trouble, or publicity for themselves. I ask again... How does changing the name of the dog change the story? The story is about the development of the bomb and the skilled and brave men that carried out the mission. I don't see the dog has any relevant part in that story Steve

I think opinion on this will remain divided and we could be flogging a dead dog!
Lets agree to disagree on this one! This might amuse Moor Larkin though, apparently Patrick McGooham makes a very early film appearance as a guard outisde the operations room and his first lines are to that waggy tailed troubelsome dog! And just to confound things, according to IMBD the dog that portrayed "Nigger" was also called "Nigger" !! Maybe they should use a Golden Lab in the remake instead of a black one, what would they call him though?

[smiffy]

Originally Posted by christoph404 I think opinion on this will remain divided and we could be flogging a dead dog! Lets agree to disagree on this one! This might amuse Moor Larkin though, apparently Patrick McGooham makes a very early film appearance as a guard outisde the operations room and his first lines are to that waggy tailed troubelsome dog! And just to confound things, according to IMBD the dog that portrayed "Nigger" was also called "Nigger" !! Maybe they should use a Golden Lab in the remake instead of a black one, what would they call him though?

Goldie ?

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by christoph404 I think opinion on this will remain divided and we could be flogging a dead dog! Lets agree to disagree on this one!

Yes, opinion will remain divided and I'm happy to agree to disagree. Although I'd still like someone to answer my question as to why they think the inclusion of the dog, and the dog's name, is so important. I notice that nobody's attempted to answer it yet

Steve

[Harleybloke]

Maybe we're approaching this from the wrong angle? Why not make the film with guys like Will Smith, Wesley Snipes, Chris Rock Etc?

They have no problem using the 'N' word...........................

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by Harleybloke Maybe we're approaching this from the wrong angle? Why not make the film with guys like Will Smith, Wesley Snipes, Chris Rock Etc? They have no problem using the 'N' word...........................

Now that would be distorting history
Having Americans in the crew

Steve

[Harleybloke]

Originally Posted by Steve Crook Now that would be distorting history Having Americans in the crew Steve

Ok, OK, so there's a couple of glitches in the first draft but stick with it.........

[Marky B]

Problem solvedenzel Washington plays Guy Gibson and the dog is called Whitey.
Ta Ta
Marky B

[christoph404]

Originally Posted by Steve Crook Yes, opinion will remain divided and I'm happy to agree to disagree. Although I'd still like someone to answer my question as to why they think the inclusion of the dog, and the dog's name, is so important. I notice that nobody's attempted to answer it yet Steve

I think as you mentioned earlier ,that in a drama based on historical events often details are changed to serve the drama while still maintaining the thrust and theme of the story.I would agree with that, providing the changes are within reason and we don't have the USA discovering the enigma code in a daft submarine film! In a two hour movie based on real events, of course it is often advantageous to the drama to amalgamate characters, change names and alter sequences of events. In a film about a Lancaster bombing raid I don't think the code name for the raid or the name of the squadron leaders dog is going to affect the drama, of course it isn't, what seems important is the fact that the name would be changed for purely PC reasons which I don't agree with at all, as DB7 mentioned it would be revisionist and somewhat of an insult to Guy Gibson and the audience in general.I really do think changing it for that reason will attract more attention and make more of an issue of a small detail that doesn't really deserve that kind of attention. If the dogs name is not that important why not just leave it as it is? At least it would be an authentic feature of the film so it would be entitled to be there. I think when "The Dam Busters" was shown recently as a limited cinema re-release it was shown in its original uncut form without any problems, I think the audience were sensible enough to view it in the context of the time and I think audiences would feel the same about the remake.

[Third Man]

Originally Posted by christoph404 what seems important is the fact that the name would be changed for purely PC reasons which I don't agree with at.

Well there's polictical correctness and then there's polictical correctness

I'm not one of the PC brigade but in this case the population and demiograph of this country has changed to such a considerable amount since the first version was shown in this country that the name will cause offence to allot of peoples sensibilities in this country.

There are also people who will use it for their own polictical machinations and I do mean both sides of the polictical spectrum because it has enough mileage in it for both of them and how do you explain to young children who end up in the cinema watching this about the use of the name will adults take the time or even know how to explain it in its proper and historical context. People who take an interest historically in these events will go to books and infomation about them they will get explanations and cultural reasons for things that happened during these times something which the film will not have enough time for.

I can't think of one good reason to keep the name of the dog in the film and I've yet to see one either.

Simon