Orbit Media

[Geoffers]

How can I put it, delicately - are releases from this company 100% legal?

I get the impression they specialise in films in the public domain, but not all of their releases appear to be in that category. However, reviews I've read indicate they are using poor quality sources in all cases, which surely would not be the case if they were licensing films not in the public domain.

I understand they will be releasing Beat Girl in a couple of weeks, so I have a special interest. Many on-line sellers carry Orbit's catalogue, but would they necessarily know (or care) if a product was properly licensed?

[batman]

Originally Posted by Geoffers How can I put it, delicately - are releases from this company 100% legal? I get the impression they specialise in films in the public domain, but not all of their releases appear to be in that category. However, reviews I've read indicate they are using poor quality sources in all cases, which surely would not be the case if they were licensing films not in the public domain. I understand they will be releasing Beat Girl in a couple of weeks, so I have a special interest. Many on-line sellers carry Orbit's catalogue, but would they necessarily know (or care) if a product was properly licensed?

You can buy Orbit's releases in th high street. I don't know if this is true, but I was told recently that there are certain sites/companies in the US that put titles that are 'public domain' in the US up for grabs via the internet. These titles can then be downloaded and sold and if anyone buys from these sites via the US they can be sold anywhere because the copyright in the country of origin, the US, has not been violated. I was wondering if that's how companies like Orbit operate?

Bats.

[JamesM]

Geoffers,

Your suspicions are entirely correct. Don't hold your breath for a good quality release from Orbit Media. And, unless they have started licensing films, it will be a bootleg.

Bats, I am not sure what exactly you are trying to say. If a US film is in the public domain there then, yes, you can make a copy of it and then sell it here. You would still need to get a certificate for it unless it was in the exempt category. The internet does not cxome into it though. It does not matter how you make that copy.

There have not been any British or any other European films that have been in copyright in Europe but have been in the public domain in the US since 1996.

Though some of the titles Orbit Media / Blackhorse entertainment sell are in the public domain, many are not. Films such as Under Capricorn, the Hitchcock films, Twinky, The Valachi papers, 1984, Ride the Whilrwind, the Fox Charlie Chan films, The Cat and the Canary, The Leather Boys, some of the Road films are not in the public domain here or in the US.

How they get away with it I do not know.

[batman]

What I was trying say, or ask, was that if a film is 'public domain' in the US, and Orbit obtain their print from the US, are they legally entitled to sell it in the UK, even if it isn't in the 'public domain' in the UK.

That's what I was told they do and sounds like that could be how they get away with it, because they don't have many non-US titles in their catalogue.

The subject came up in conversation because of the number of US and Australian copies of The 39 Steps I have seen on sale recently.

Bats.

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by batman What I was trying say, or ask, was that if a film is 'public domain' in the US, and Orbit obtain their print from the US, are they legally entitled to sell it in the UK, even if it isn't in the 'public domain' in the UK.

You'd probably have to get a legal opinion to untangle that one

Steve

[JamesM]

Originally Posted by batman What I was trying say, or ask, was that if a film is 'public domain' in the US, and Orbit obtain their print from the US, are they legally entitled to sell it in the UK, even if it isn't in the 'public domain' in the UK. That's what I was told they do and sounds like that could be how they get away with it, because they don't have many non-US titles in their catalogue. The subject came up in conversation because of the number of US and Australian copies of The 39 Steps I have seen on sale recently. Bats.

Even when titles were in the public domain in the US but were not in the public domain here, you would still be selling copies illegally if you made them here.
To help understand the principle, a DVD company in Australia has rights to a film in Australasia can not then produce a DVD in the UK if they do not have the rights to do so in that region.

If a US film is in the public domain in the US then it should be in the public domain in the rest of the world. If A British film is in copyright in the UK then it has to be in copyright in the US. There are no longer any films that are in copyright in the US and not in the UK, nor vice versa.

The 39 Steps (1935) is in copyright and so the copies you find in the US are bootlegs other than the one issued by Criterion. The film is also still in copyright in Australia.

With reference to Orbit, many of their US films are not in the public domain in the US, none of the British films are.

[Dave Rattigan]

How do you know they aren't paying for the rights?

I have a few Orbit DVDs, including the Chan set, and the quality is atrocious at times.

[JamesM]

Originally Posted by Dave Rattigan How do you know they aren't paying for the rights? I have a few Orbit DVDs, including the Chan set, and the quality is atrocious at times.

When you acquire rights, you usually acquire access to materials. Rights for Hollywood films are expensive and you would not spend 90% of your budget on rights, and 10% on everything else.

Rightsholders would be reluctant to trade with a DVD company that has a history of bootlegging.

The film Twinky is exclusively licensed to Network DVD by Granada. Orbit Media seem to have a copy for sale too. Same goes for the early Hitchcock films.

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by JamesM If a US film is in the public domain in the US then it should be in the public domain in the rest of the world. If A British film is in copyright in the UK then it has to be in copyright in the US. There are no longer any films that are in copyright in the US and not in the UK, nor vice versa.

Isn't that applying the laws of one country to the residents of another country?
Does that work?

There are many grey areas in copyright law.
That's why lawyers become so rich

Steve

[russell99]

Originally Posted by JamesM Geoffers, Your suspicions are entirely correct. Don't hold your breath for a good quality release from Orbit Media. And, unless they have started licensing films, it will be a bootleg. Bats, I am not sure what exactly you are trying to say. If a US film is in the public domain there then, yes, you can make a copy of it and then sell it here. You would still need to get a certificate for it unless it was in the exempt category. The internet does not cxome into it though. It does not matter how you make that copy. There have not been any British or any other European films that have been in copyright in Europe but have been in the public domain in the US since 1996. Though some of the titles Orbit Media / Blackhorse entertainment sell are in the public domain, many are not. Films such as Under Capricorn, the Hitchcock films, Twinky, The Valachi papers, 1984, Ride the Whilrwind, the Fox Charlie Chan films, The Cat and the Canary, The Leather Boys, some of the Road films are not in the public domain here or in the US. How they get away with it I do not know.

I have joined this forum, in fury at the mis-information and libel your are spouting. To imply and down right aledge that they are selling illegal dvds when you have no idea what license agreements they have and with who are shows a complete lack of intelligence, and from a moderator even worse, you bring shame on yourself and this forum.

How do you know if Criterion have or have not licensed others to make copies of their films?

These are very serious allegations from you, and I would expect if Orbit media see this they could take legal action against you.

[John Hodson]

Orbit Media are a low-grade, low-rent bunch of bootleggers whose product I would not even use as coasters; pick the libel out of that.

If someone is offering up misinformation here, I'm afraid it's you Russell; complete rubbish.

[russell99]

Originally Posted by John Hodson Orbit Media are a low-grade, low-rent bunch of bootleggers whose product I would not even use as coasters; pick the libel out of that. If someone is offering up misinformation here, I'm afraid it's you Russell; complete rubbish.

Which licenses do they have, and which films are they illegally producing without licenses? Which ones are public domain? Im impressed you have inside info of their business dealings...

[penfold]

This makes a nice change....a real full blooded row and I'm a spectator for once....

[John Hodson]

Originally Posted by russell99 Which licenses do they have, and which films are they illegally producing without licenses? Which ones are public domain? Im impressed you have inside info of their business dealings...

I'll quote one example - which James has already cited along with others in this thread - 'Twinky' is part of the Granada International catalogue. In this country, Granada license their products to Network (they used to have a tandem deal with DDHE), and to Studio Canal for certain box sets. They do not license out to Orbit.

Orbit do not have access to any transfers or elements owned by Granada, or any of the other titles that they bootleg, and they care little for the quality of the product they inflict on unsuspecting punters, hence their offerings appear to be digital copies of third generation VHS tapes. Last year, when Studio Canal produced the early Hitchcock box set, films for which they are the lawul UK rights holders, Orbit rushed out, almost day and date, their own God-awful versions of the same titles in order that the publicity and confusion would bring them a few more sales from the suckers.

Orbit - like many other dubious outfits worldwide - may be playing fast and loose with certain titles the rights for which may be, let's say, 'murky', they may have a loose interpretation of what is actually 'legal'; that doesn't stop them being low-rent, low-grade bootleggers (and I still haven't heard from their lawyers).

As for 'evidence', I'd turn the issue back on you, but, to be honest, I simply cannot be bothered; you want to keep dealing with this bunch? It don't make no never mind to me...

[Amethyst_Isle]

Originally Posted by John Hodson As for 'evidence', I'd turn the issue back on you, but, to be honest, I simply cannot be bothered; you want to keep dealing with this bunch? It don't make no never mind to me...

Hi John
I think for anyone to believe you,it would be nice if you could provide evidence of this to back up your claim of any illegal wrong doings " I simply cannot be bothered " is skating around the issue.