Value for Money DVD's - or not

[Mr Martin]

Why don't some DVD producers get it right ?



For example - "This Happy Breed" has been released recently as a 2 disc version complete with PDF script, Press Book and other advertising material with other extras also included. - An excellent release.



Another film made about the same time The Ealing film "Train of Events" has also been released - This title appears to have nothing more, apart from the film itself. The point is, both DVD's were on sale at the same price.



As there have been out-takes for Train of Events around for several years, why were'nt they included with this release. I realize that this film is generally not considered to be as good as This Happy Breed but the same situation seems to apply to nearly all the British films released by Optimum. When are we going to see good DVD packages for the Classic Ealing Films? - (I think I know the answer to this)



If Network can release good value DVD packages, Why can't Optimum releasing ?



Anyway, what happened to the idea from a few years ago that films would be released in 2 forms. One plain release for the general public and then another version for the collectors market ?





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[Carl V]

It is annoying, but sadly this has always happened with DVD's. I still have some of the early discs of various Hollywood releases and some of them include nothing more than a trailer and they were still charging 20 quid for them, as much as a 2-disc feature-packed release - even from the same DVD producer (in this case Paramount).



I get equally annoyed when a film is released on DVD with nothing else, and then a year or two later the same film is re-released with masses of extras, documentaries, behind-the-scenes information, etc.



If say, a 1960s film gets released on DVD for a second time with a wealth of extras, you'd have to wonder why they weren't included in the original release bearing in mind that, with the age of the film, the extras would have been available to begin with. I guess it's an attempt to get people to buy the same title twice, which I certainly won't do.

[Steve Crook]

name='Carl V']It is annoying, but sadly this has always happened with DVD's. I still have some of the early discs of various Hollywood releases and some of them include nothing more than a trailer and they were still charging 20 quid for them, as much as a 2-disc feature-packed release - even from the same DVD producer (in this case Paramount).



I get equally annoyed when a film is released on DVD with nothing else, and then a year or two later the same film is re-released with masses of extras, documentaries, behind-the-scenes information, etc.



If say, a 1960s film gets released on DVD for a second time with a wealth of extras, you'd have to wonder why they weren't included in the original release bearing in mind that, with the age of the film, the extras would have been available to begin with. I guess it's an attempt to get people to buy the same title twice, which I certainly won't do.

There are sometimes reasons for not releasing all the extras the first time. Maybe they needed to get clearance to use them, maybe they had them on film but not in digital format etc., etc.



And when you ask why they released the "bare bones" DVD when they knew, or strongly suspected that the extras would soon be available, they will say that people were screaming out for it so they wanted to satisfy those people as soon as possible.





But the cheekiest one I ever saw was when Criterion released a film, The Red Shoes, and then a few months later they started to release it with a "Special Edition" sticker on it. Of course I bought this "special edition" one but when I checked it I found that it had exactly the same print of the film and exactly the same extras.



Now as it happens, I know some people at Criterion. I've given them quite a bit of help over the years. So I asked them why they were releasing the DVD with the "special edition" sticker on it.



"Well, it is a special edition" they said. And they're right, it's got more extras than any other DVD I've ever seen, before or since.



"But the ones without the sticker were equally special" I said. "What's special about the ones with the sticker on?"



They thought about this for a while and then replied ...

"They're special because they've got a 'Special Edition' sticker on them"



I had to admire their cheek



Steve

[MrT]

The trouble with "Train of events" is the releasing company - Optimum. They just don't bother - poor quality or incomplete prints often used; seldom any extras; unimaginative packaging and artwork; exorbitant list price (although can usually be bought for much cheaper).



A real shame that Network or Odeon don't hold the rights to the Ealing films. Both companies would treat these classics with much more care and respect.



Mike (MrT)

[CaptainWaggett]

name='MrT']The trouble with "Train of events" is the releasing company - Optimum. They just don't bother - poor quality or incomplete prints often used; seldom any extras; unimaginative packaging and artwork; exorbitant list price (although can usually be bought for much cheaper).



A real shame that Network or Odeon don't hold the rights to the Ealing films. Both companies would treat these classics with much more care and respect.



Mike (MrT)

Optimum did a very good package for the Whisky Galore special edition. Perhaps it just wasn't popular enough to justify further 2-disc editions. Which is a shame as you'd think quite a few of the Ealings deserve similar treatment.

[Brief Encounter]

But why do they have to be so expensive if it's just the film. I might have bought Trouble Brewing if it wasn't £16 (or so)...

[CaptainWaggett]

name='Brief Encounter']But why do they have to be so expensive if it's just the film. I might have bought Trouble Brewing if it wasn't £16 (or so)...

You can get it for under a tenner from [ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trouble-Brewing-DVD-George-Formby/dp/B001TJKVN2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1245647007&sr=8-1"]Amazon[/ame]



To be fair, the prices of films gone down a lot in the last 15 years - a film that was £12 on video in 1993 can now be bought on dvd for less than that.

[MrT]

To respond to Captain Waggett's point I agree that one or two of Optimum's releases in its early years were outstanding - the restorations of Champagne Charlie (1944) and It always rains on Sunday (1947) being two fine examples, in addition to Whiskey Galore.



However since then it has been generally downhill - the cutting by 6 minutes of Will Hay's The goose steps out being the last straw.



Also, on the pricing front, the two restorations mentioned were initially available in box sets, working out considerably cheaper than the current £15.99 list price that they seem to demand for most single dvd's. Perhaps they ought to consider more sets - the recent London set was rather better (and better value) than many of their recent offerings.



Mike (MrT)

[Cheeky Bob]

name='Steve Crook']And when you ask why they released the "bare bones" DVD when they knew, or strongly suspected that the extras would soon be available, they will say that people were screaming out for it so they wanted to satisfy those people as soon as possible.

Yes, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Take time to do it properly and people complain that it's taking ages. Release it quickly and people complain that it wasn't as good as it could have been. And if you do both, you get this kind of thing:

name='Carl V']I get equally annoyed when a film is released on DVD with nothing else, and then a year or two later the same film is re-released with masses of extras, documentaries, behind-the-scenes information, etc.

Well, there are several reasons for this, one of the most likely being that the special edition will probably some time to assemble (see below). If the distributor has only licensed the film for a limited period of time (a virtual certainty if the company is an independent outfit), it makes much more sense to get out a barebones edition quickly and then work on a special edition. There's also the strong possibility that getting the green light for a special edition might well be conditional on the barebones disc performing well enough to justify that extra expense - and there's only one way of finding that out.

If say, a 1960s film gets released on DVD for a second time with a wealth of extras, you'd have to wonder why they weren't included in the original release bearing in mind that, with the age of the film, the extras would have been available to begin with.

They'd almost certainly exist to begin with, but that's not remotely the same thing as being available. For starters, the owners have to be tracked down and the rights cleared. If you're lucky, this involves just one rightsholder - but if the extras include any third-party material, you have to track down all those rightsholders and clear the clips/music/etc. all over again. This is because it's highly unlikely that a producer back in the 1960s would have bothered clearing all the relevant rights across all territories and all media - there wouldn't have been any point, as secondary retail markets and DVD extras didn't exist.



And then, once you've secured the rights, you need to track down a decent copy - no point doing it before rights clearance because you don't know whether you'd be wasting your time. If it's been preserved in a film archive in good condition, you're laughing. If it isn't, you probably aren't. And if you haven't been able to clear all the relevant rights, you're going to have to edit the material to remove everything that you're not entitled to release, which can often be a highly complicated job.



Sadly, rather too many people seem to think that there's some huge supermarket out there where you can just pluck neatly pre-packaged extras off the shelf and slap them on a DVD at little extra cost or effort. But it just doesn't work like that - especially not if the distributor is a small independent outfit.

[Carl V]

name='Steve Crook']



I had to admire their cheek



Steve

Many thanks Steve for your reply. It is a little cheeky of Criterion, I must admit.



To be truthful, the only DVD's I normally buy now are old British film classics and TV shows from the past. One thing I will say for the BBC with their Dr. Who DVD's (the original ones), they do usually include plenty of extra features and they appear to re-master them as well, as I have a number of them from the Tom Baker era and the picture quality is far better than I would have expected.



I also have some from William Hartnell's days as the Doctor, and even though these go back to the 60s, there is plenty of archive material included on the DVD release.

[Carl V]

I've only just read your posting Bob, thank you for your explanation. What you say is true - it's just a little frustrating if it's a film you are particularly keen on and you have to buy the film again to get the extra features, but I appreciate what you say.



I'm not sure if I'm allowed to mention these, as they are American made films, but I remember many years ago Fox brought out the Predator (Schwarzenegger) DVD, and there were numerous complaints because the film had been edited. Even though it was rated '18', several scenes were missing. Fox responded by releasing a 'Special Edition' shortly after which had these missing scenes re-inserted back into the film. That to me is cheeky, bearing in mind that this film had already been shown on TV in full, so I don't see any reason why they couldn't have issued the uncut version in the first place.



One honest DVD producer is, I think, New Line with their Lord Of The Rings releases. They said they would first release the films by themselves, and then once the final film is completed, they would then re-release them all with an extended version and extra features.

[batman]

I must have been lucky my with Optimum purchases, I have always found them to be perfectly acceptable (apart from The Long Arm). A few extras would be nice, but if 'vanilla' copies are all that's available, I am quite happy with that. At the end of the days it's the films themselves that really interest me, not the extras.

[MrT]

Is Optimum listening? It seems that possibly they are. Without taking back all I said Optimum seem to have come up trumps with the two Bulddog Drummond films just released. I got my copies this morning and can report very favourably indeed - no extras, a bit pricey maybe, but they are excellent transfers from top quality masters including the BBFC introductions on both films. It will be good to watch "Bulldog Drummond at Bay" in its original version rather than the American released "Republic" version that has been abvailable on NTSC video for years.



I think this is the first time that any 30s films from "Associated British" have had an official dvd release, so let's hope there maybe more. The sound level on both films seems fine on the sections i checked - Optimum have had sound problems on some issues.



For some who think I have been unfair to Optimum here is a reminder of some of the problems:



GEORGE FORMBY box set - when issued, Come on George had the end missing (5 minutes) and the cound track was permanently and badly out of sync on "Turned out nice again"



ALEC GUINNESS box set - The disc with artwork for Kind Hearts and Coronets actually played The ladykillers!!



WILL HAY - The goose steps out - 6 and a half minutes cut



TONY HANCOCK collection - Punch and Judy man cut by 5 minutes or so - (same master used as for VHS video) Both films shown 4:3 in wrong aspect ratio;



THE LONG ARM (Jack Hawkins) 1956 - very low sound level - almost fades completely at some points in the film.



OUT OF THE CLOUDS - awful colour print (C4 version far superior)

SAN DEMETRIO LONDON - very poor print used (again, C4 version much superior);



Prints used for some Ealing comedies - Passport to Pimlico & Hue and Cry - very average, with no sign of any restoration carried out;



Apart from the George Formby set, does anyone know if any of these problems have been sorted out?



Mike (MrT)

[Mr Martin]

name='batman']I must have been lucky my with Optimum purchases, I have always found them to be perfectly acceptable (apart from The Long Arm). A few extras would be nice, but if 'vanilla' copies are all that's available, I am quite happy with that. At the end of the days it's the flms themselves that really interest me, not the extras.

I do agree that it is the films themselves which are the important part, however still images such as posters, press books etc. are very much part of the original release of the film, so therefore should really be included if possible.



Other"extra " items like documentaries, commentaries, deleted scenes would be very good to have but I realize there might be an increased cost involved with obtaining such items, so the film may not justify this. - This does of course not apply to the Ealing Classic Films. These should be available with at least the basic extra material, as outlined above.



Lets hope someone at Optimum Releasing is taking notice of some of the problems indicated in posts on this Website and that they not only continue to issue many more of the Classic British Films, but also perhaps allow the film fan to obtain much of the largely unseen printed material that still exists.



This is also an important part of film heritage, and could be issued on DVD, other DVD companies can do it . Why not Optimum ?







.

[CaptainWaggett]

name='MrT']



THE LONG ARM (Jack Hawkins) 1956 - very low sound level - almost fades completely at some points in the film.

I watched this a couple of days ago - at full volume and still couldn't hear one scene

[Steve Crook]

name='CaptainWaggett']I watched this a couple of days ago - at full volume and still couldn't hear one scene

Steve

[Brief Encounter]

I watched EVERGREEN the other night... had to turn the volume up a lot!