Red Beret tape - Britmovie

eric · 09-03-2004, 06:53 PM

Hi,

is there anybody out there who might be able to tape â€œThe Red Beret (Alan Ladd)â€ for me, it is on Channel 4 tomorrow (Wednesday 10th March), at 13:00 (01.00 PM). I live in Holland, and unfortunately we donâ€™t have Channel 4 over there. Iâ€™ve been looking for this movie for quite a while. Expenses will be covered, of course.

Eric

DAVID RAYNER · 09-03-2004, 08:18 PM

This version of The Red Beret, which has been run quite a few times in recent years on Channel 4, appears to be an American version supplied to them before they changed the title to Paratrooper for the American market. The tell tale signs are the obvious. Color By Technicolor instead of Colour by Technicolor on the credits and also Introducing Susan Stephen on the credits when she was already well known to British cinema audiences before this film. Stanley Baker's Welsh voice is also dubbed on this version by an actor with an English accent who sounds like John Van Eysen. Obviously, in the days before Richard Burton made it big in Hollywood, the powers that be at Columbia must have decided that Americans wouldn't be able to understand Baker's accent. A pretty daft decision by some ignoramus at the time.

So what's happened to all the original British copies, then? Well, they've probably been incinerated, along with many other British classics. Which is why we have to put up with the American versions being imported from the States and why we can only see Damn the Defiant these days instead of H.M.S. Defiant.

Steve Crook · 09-03-2004, 09:51 PM

Interesting film though. A thinly veiled disguise of the story of the real raid on the German radar station at Bruneval.

It was led my Maj John Frost ("Maj. Snow" played by Leo Genn) who later went on to lead the paratroopers who got to the bridge at Arnhem (as played in "A Bridge Too Far" by Anthony Hopkins). John Frost is a bit of a hero of mine.

The radar expert they took along was really Flight Sergeant C.W.H. Cox ("Sergeant Box" in the film).

There was no need for Alan Ladd's character in the film as John Frost wasn't wounded. In fact it was an almost ideal combined operation.

Steve

DAVID RAYNER · 09-03-2004, 10:28 PM

That's very interesting, Steve. I wasn't aware of those facts. I always thought it was just a fictitious story designed to make Alan Ladd's character look a bit more heroic than the British characters.

I was only seven years old when I was taken to see THE RED BERET at the now long gone Tatton cinema at Gatley, near Stockport in 1954, but I recall how it was very controversial at the time, because many ex-soldiers objected to a film where American Alan Ladd basically came over to England to show us how to win the war (even though the war had already been over for eight or nine years by that time. I think the producers got over the controversy by making Ladd a Canadian who'd come over to England to learn, not to teach.

Lord Brett · 10-03-2004, 10:08 AM

Eric, I'm taping The Red Beret this afternoon. Provided I haven't messed up setting the video I'm happy to run you off a copy.

David, do you know of any other differences between the American and British versions of The Red Beret/Paratrooper, other than the dubbing of Stanley Baker?

Did Baker affect a strong accent for the film? Whenever Iâ€™ve heard him in the past (heâ€™s pretty much my favourite actor, so Iâ€™ve seen a good cross-section of his performances) his voice has been a very slghtly Welsh tinged Standard English.

I really hope the UK version hasn't been destroyed - as I've posted elsewhere on this site, certain films just seem to fall off the radar, while others are almost constanntly re-run.

eric · 10-03-2004, 01:14 PM

Thanks for the information, people, and two of you said they would tape the film for me, so it does look like I can get a copy or two and finally see this one. Much appreciation,

Eric

DAVID RAYNER · 10-03-2004, 03:25 PM

Eric: Although I've already got THE RED BERET from an earlier transmission, I found a spare tape and did it again this afternoon for you. If none of the others get through, feel free to contact me and I'll arrange for you to get this copy. Naturally, with Channel 4 being an unadulterated paragon of showmanship (as are all the other TV channels these days), they ruined the ending by squashing the cast list into a corner of the screen and spent the next 30 seconds rabbiting on about the dubious virtues of the following programme. It's about time this classic 50's war film was released on video or DVD and then this sort of thing would no longer be a problem.

Lord Brett: Luckily, I have the original British version, with Baker's voice undubbed, on audio cassette...a recording I made off ATV Midlands in March, 1975. There were no video recorders then, unfortunately. I haven't checked both versions in a long time. But it does seem odd that on the American version, Baker's voice is dubbed, but not that of Donald Houston, who was also as Welsh as Baker. On the British version I have on audio tape, Baker sounds just as he did in Hell Below Zero and Knights of the Round Table, both made a short while after The Red Beret and his voice wasn't dubbed in either of those. So why they chose to have his voice dubbed on this version is a mystery to me.

Steve Crook · 15-03-2004, 01:49 AM

I just watched The Red Beret as it was shown on Channel 4. No sign of dubbing, lots of strong Scottish and Welsh accents.

I did find it amusing that when Maj Snow was injured that it was by grenade shrapnel in his legs. That's just how John Frost (the real person Maj Snow was based on) was injured at Arnhem.

There was a lot of back projection used with stock footage of soldiers behind close-ups of the lead actors.

I also thought it strange that when Breton (Stanley Baker) had his accident, nobody fancied jumping for a few minutes. But when they did jump they all landed in the same field that Breton had landed in. You'd expect them to be spread out a few miles away.

BTW the attack on the airfield in North africa was based on an attck that John Frost and his battalion made in Tunisia. They also fought in Sicily and Italy before they went to Arnhem.

But I did like the way that Leo Genn threw his red beret onto the coat-hook when he entered his office :)

Steve

DAVID RAYNER · 15-03-2004, 07:52 AM

Well, Steve, either your attention was distracted while you were trying to listen to the part of the film that Stanley Baker appeared in, or you are unfamiliar with the sound of his voice. For his Welsh voice was definitely dubbed by someone with a much deeper English accent. I have both versions and ran them side by side yesterday and the differance is as plain as the nose on your face. His was the only voice that was dubbed, though and the result sounded awful.

I ran the British version of The Red Beret (on a reissue double-bill with The Man from Laramie) in 1964, during my years as a cinema projectionist and Stanley Baker's voice was definitely on the version that I ran then.

Lord Brett · 15-03-2004, 08:09 AM

Although Stanley Bakerâ€™s voice was definitely dubbed in this version, hats off to the sound department, who certainly did a fine job of work. Speaking of hats off, I note that the film was co-produced by Albert R Brocolli, directed by Tertence Young and co-written by Richard Maibaum. As, some ten years later, this team would make Dr. No, I viewed Leo Gennâ€™s Bondian hat-throwing skills with special amusement.

Wonder if he did it in one take?

DAVID RAYNER · 15-03-2004, 10:18 AM

Lord Brett, it's funny you should have noticed that, for I was thinking exactly the same thing.

don of forest view rd e12 · 14-05-2005, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DAVID RAYNER@Mar 15 2004, 10:18 AM
Lord Brett, it's funny you should have noticed that, for I was thinking exactly the same thing.

the red beret film [alan lad] is showing on channel 4[uk] at 1335hrs thursday 19th may2005 if any one is still looking to record it,
DW

don of forest view rd e12 · 14-05-2005, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eric@Mar 9 2004, 06:53 PM
Hi,

is there anybody out there who might be able to tape â€œThe Red Beret (Alan Ladd)â€ for me, it is on Channel 4 tomorrow (Wednesday 10th March), at 13:00 (01.00 PM). I live in Holland, and unfortunately we donâ€™t have Channel 4 over there. Iâ€™ve been looking for this movie for quite a while. Expenses will be covered, of course.

Eric

THE RED BERET film [alan ladd] is showing on channel 4[uk]on thursday 19th may 2005 at 1335hrs,if anybody is still looking to watch it again.

just watched it today not bad ,i dont recone its worth keeping though. DW DW

grahamb01 · 14-11-2005, 10:28 PM

Can anyone help? I have been trying for years to get hold of the Red Beret for my Dad, as his Dad was a Red Beret.

Can anyone point me in the right direction please.

Thanks

Graham

09-03-2004, 06:53 PM	#1
eric has no status. Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3 iTrader: (0)	Red Beret tape Hi, is there anybody out there who might be able to tape â€œThe Red Beret (Alan Ladd)â€ for me, it is on Channel 4 tomorrow (Wednesday 10th March), at 13:00 (01.00 PM). I live in Holland, and unfortunately we donâ€™t have Channel 4 over there. Iâ€™ve been looking for this movie for quite a while. Expenses will be covered, of course. Eric

09-03-2004, 09:51 PM	#3
Steve Crook is cheeky Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: London Posts: 9,869 My Mood: Country: iTrader: (1)	Interesting film though. A thinly veiled disguise of the story of the real raid on the German radar station at Bruneval. It was led my Maj John Frost ("Maj. Snow" played by Leo Genn) who later went on to lead the paratroopers who got to the bridge at Arnhem (as played in "A Bridge Too Far" by Anthony Hopkins). John Frost is a bit of a hero of mine. The radar expert they took along was really Flight Sergeant C.W.H. Cox ("Sergeant Box" in the film). There was no need for Alan Ladd's character in the film as John Frost wasn't wounded. In fact it was an almost ideal combined operation. Steve __________________ Steve Crook PaPAS

15-03-2004, 01:49 AM	#8
Steve Crook is cheeky Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: London Posts: 9,869 My Mood: Country: iTrader: (1)	I just watched The Red Beret as it was shown on Channel 4. No sign of dubbing, lots of strong Scottish and Welsh accents. I did find it amusing that when Maj Snow was injured that it was by grenade shrapnel in his legs. That's just how John Frost (the real person Maj Snow was based on) was injured at Arnhem. There was a lot of back projection used with stock footage of soldiers behind close-ups of the lead actors. I also thought it strange that when Breton (Stanley Baker) had his accident, nobody fancied jumping for a few minutes. But when they did jump they all landed in the same field that Breton had landed in. You'd expect them to be spread out a few miles away. BTW the attack on the airfield in North africa was based on an attck that John Frost and his battalion made in Tunisia. They also fought in Sicily and Italy before they went to Arnhem. But I did like the way that Leo Genn threw his red beret onto the coat-hook when he entered his office :) Steve __________________ Steve Crook PaPAS

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09-03-2004, 08:18 PM	#2
DAVID RAYNER has no status. Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: none Posts: 370 iTrader: (0)	This version of The Red Beret, which has been run quite a few times in recent years on Channel 4, appears to be an American version supplied to them before they changed the title to Paratrooper for the American market. The tell tale signs are the obvious. Color By Technicolor instead of Colour by Technicolor on the credits and also Introducing Susan Stephen on the credits when she was already well known to British cinema audiences before this film. Stanley Baker's Welsh voice is also dubbed on this version by an actor with an English accent who sounds like John Van Eysen. Obviously, in the days before Richard Burton made it big in Hollywood, the powers that be at Columbia must have decided that Americans wouldn't be able to understand Baker's accent. A pretty daft decision by some ignoramus at the time. So what's happened to all the original British copies, then? Well, they've probably been incinerated, along with many other British classics. Which is why we have to put up with the American versions being imported from the States and why we can only see Damn the Defiant these days instead of H.M.S. Defiant.

09-03-2004, 10:28 PM	#4
DAVID RAYNER has no status. Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: none Posts: 370 iTrader: (0)	That's very interesting, Steve. I wasn't aware of those facts. I always thought it was just a fictitious story designed to make Alan Ladd's character look a bit more heroic than the British characters. I was only seven years old when I was taken to see THE RED BERET at the now long gone Tatton cinema at Gatley, near Stockport in 1954, but I recall how it was very controversial at the time, because many ex-soldiers objected to a film where American Alan Ladd basically came over to England to show us how to win the war (even though the war had already been over for eight or nine years by that time. I think the producers got over the controversy by making Ladd a Canadian who'd come over to England to learn, not to teach.

10-03-2004, 10:08 AM	#5
Lord Brett has no status. Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire Posts: 968 My Mood: Country: iTrader: (2)	Eric, I'm taping The Red Beret this afternoon. Provided I haven't messed up setting the video I'm happy to run you off a copy. David, do you know of any other differences between the American and British versions of The Red Beret/Paratrooper, other than the dubbing of Stanley Baker? Did Baker affect a strong accent for the film? Whenever Iâ€™ve heard him in the past (heâ€™s pretty much my favourite actor, so Iâ€™ve seen a good cross-section of his performances) his voice has been a very slghtly Welsh tinged Standard English. I really hope the UK version hasn't been destroyed - as I've posted elsewhere on this site, certain films just seem to fall off the radar, while others are almost constanntly re-run.

10-03-2004, 01:14 PM	#6
eric has no status. Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3 iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the information, people, and two of you said they would tape the film for me, so it does look like I can get a copy or two and finally see this one. Much appreciation, Eric

10-03-2004, 03:25 PM	#7
DAVID RAYNER has no status. Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: none Posts: 370 iTrader: (0)	Eric: Although I've already got THE RED BERET from an earlier transmission, I found a spare tape and did it again this afternoon for you. If none of the others get through, feel free to contact me and I'll arrange for you to get this copy. Naturally, with Channel 4 being an unadulterated paragon of showmanship (as are all the other TV channels these days), they ruined the ending by squashing the cast list into a corner of the screen and spent the next 30 seconds rabbiting on about the dubious virtues of the following programme. It's about time this classic 50's war film was released on video or DVD and then this sort of thing would no longer be a problem. Lord Brett: Luckily, I have the original British version, with Baker's voice undubbed, on audio cassette...a recording I made off ATV Midlands in March, 1975. There were no video recorders then, unfortunately. I haven't checked both versions in a long time. But it does seem odd that on the American version, Baker's voice is dubbed, but not that of Donald Houston, who was also as Welsh as Baker. On the British version I have on audio tape, Baker sounds just as he did in Hell Below Zero and Knights of the Round Table, both made a short while after The Red Beret and his voice wasn't dubbed in either of those. So why they chose to have his voice dubbed on this version is a mystery to me.

15-03-2004, 07:52 AM	#9
DAVID RAYNER has no status. Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: none Posts: 370 iTrader: (0)	Well, Steve, either your attention was distracted while you were trying to listen to the part of the film that Stanley Baker appeared in, or you are unfamiliar with the sound of his voice. For his Welsh voice was definitely dubbed by someone with a much deeper English accent. I have both versions and ran them side by side yesterday and the differance is as plain as the nose on your face. His was the only voice that was dubbed, though and the result sounded awful. I ran the British version of The Red Beret (on a reissue double-bill with The Man from Laramie) in 1964, during my years as a cinema projectionist and Stanley Baker's voice was definitely on the version that I ran then.

15-03-2004, 08:09 AM	#10
Lord Brett has no status. Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire Posts: 968 My Mood: Country: iTrader: (2)	Although Stanley Bakerâ€™s voice was definitely dubbed in this version, hats off to the sound department, who certainly did a fine job of work. Speaking of hats off, I note that the film was co-produced by Albert R Brocolli, directed by Tertence Young and co-written by Richard Maibaum. As, some ten years later, this team would make Dr. No, I viewed Leo Gennâ€™s Bondian hat-throwing skills with special amusement. Wonder if he did it in one take?

15-03-2004, 10:18 AM	#11
DAVID RAYNER has no status. Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: none Posts: 370 iTrader: (0)	Lord Brett, it's funny you should have noticed that, for I was thinking exactly the same thing.

14-11-2005, 10:28 PM	#14
grahamb01 has no status. Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1 iTrader: (0)	Can anyone help? I have been trying for years to get hold of the Red Beret for my Dad, as his Dad was a Red Beret. Can anyone point me in the right direction please. Thanks Graham