Scenes that glamorise violence?

[Josefine]

What scenes from which movies do you think completely glamorise violence through the music that accompanies them?

I think any scene with Hit Girl kicking ass in... well... Kick Ass made the gruesome things she did seem pretty cool.

Over to you!

[GoggleboxUK]

I suppose it depends on your defition of violence and your definition of glamour. Kick Ass doesn't glamourise violence IMO, it demonstrates a comic book view of live and stylised action.

It tampers with the sense of right and wrong by creating the impossible and allowing your conscience to suspend the notion of "this is real" and replace it with "if this was real it would be horrible but it can't be so it is funny". The Matrix does the same thing without the humour but I'd never go as far as to call either glamourous.

Violence in Bond movies is far more glamourous because it isn't as graphic. Pick any fight scene from any pre-Daniel Craig movie and compare it with anything from the Bourne trilogy and the distinction is obvious, so much so that the Bond franchise learned from it and used it in Casino Royale to create a more gritty feel.

The ear cutting scene from Reservoir Dogs is perhaps one of the most recognisable moments from modern film that has a different approach designed to disturb the viewer. Can you call this glamourised violence? Possibly, although the violence was merely implied and the glamour was all in the blase attitude of the 'gangster-cool'.

I remember Lord Attenborough hitting out at Guy Ritchie in the early part of the millenium for glamourising violence but I couldn't quite agree with his concept of Vinnie Jones and Jason Statham being glamourous in any way.

I don't think film can be singled out in 21st century life as the major culprit. Eminem and Rihanna's music video for I Love the Way you Lie is an obvious example and Andrew Sachs' grandaughter, Georgina Baillie has been photographed posing provocatively with guns and is therefore obviously glamourising violence. Pick any 8 from 10 video game releases (*cough* Grand Theft Auto *cough*) and it's much more apparent in this entertainment industry than in the movie biz.

Google Nollywood, the Nigerian film industry, and you'll see a whole other side of violence in film that has started to make money over the last 20 years.

At one time they used to say Sex Sells. These days, thanks to the internet, sex is free and violence sells. You just have to remember that someone scripted it and it really isn't anything more than bad language, tomato sauce and acting.

[Kitty Whiskers]

There is a fashion at the moment to have an ultra-violent fight scene with an easy-listening soundtrack playing a la the opening of The Watchmen. I don't know that it glamourises violence, though. In that scene it was quite cartoonish. I'm quite bored with that sort of device anyway. Like playing a hip tunes over a helicopter flying into a battle zone - boring.

[Steve Crook]

What scenes from which movies do you think completely glamorise violence through the music that accompanies them?

I can't think of any films that glamorise violence.
Some, like Goodfellas glamorise some people who lead a violent lifestyle. But the actual violence isn't at all glamorous or glamorised

Steve

[Santonix]

Not just a scene, but the whole of A Clockwork Orange.

[batman]

The only scene that sticks in my mind (apart from those in A Clockwork Orange) is the ear cutting scene in Reservoir Dogs which happens off screen to the sound of Stealer's Wheel's 'Stuck In The Middle With You'. However, I don't think it glamourised the violence, it was the contrast between a horrible act and a nice piece of music that made it memorable.

[ShirlGirl]

I can't think of any films that glamorise violence.
Some, like Goodfellas glamorise some people who lead a violent lifestyle. But the actual violence isn't at all glamorous or glamorised.

Steve

I think you've hit the nail on the head there, Steve.

[Moor Larkin]

I can't think of any films that glamorise violence.
Some, like Goodfellas glamorise some people who lead a violent lifestyle. But the actual violence isn't at all glamorous or glamorised

I daresay you've never watched crap like Kill Bill or gorno like Saw. There are zillions of modern movies that wallow in physical violence like snorting buffaloes in mud, and endeavour to make it look ubercool and even feign some glib moralism at the same time. I know you dislike movies with men in t-shirts so I feel fairly confident you know not of that which you speak.... The boundary is as tricky as Clint Eastwood of course.

Slightly askance from that self-evident truism, I've also noticed a fashion in some movies for women to punch or slap [hard] verbally insulting men and it seems to be promoted as empowering for the woman to do so. I can recall Kathleen Turner punching rather than screaming, when assaulted (which might be empowering) but the physical violence I'm referring to has happened in one or two rom-com type movies I've encountered (can't think of any by name frustratingly). I always wonder what the chatterering classes would say if the man were to punch the young gel right back and split her nose open... That of course does happen in many other movies.

[Tigon Man]

One scene that springs to mind is in Shallow Grave, where Kerry Fox is beaten up at the end of the movie. Nasty, gratuitous, mysoginistic and completely irrelevant to the plot. Had it been earlier in the film, my girlfriend and I would have walked out.
I've never liked Danny Boyle since.

[Steve Crook]

I daresay you've never watched crap like Kill Bill or gorno like Saw. There are zillions of modern movies that wallow in physical violence like snorting buffaloes in mud, and endeavour to make it look ubercool and even feign some glib moralism at the same time. I know you dislike movies with men in t-shirts so I feel fairly confident you know not of that which you speak.... The boundary is as tricky as Clint Eastwood of course.

I've certainly seen Kill Bill (both parts). But although they wallow in violence, in what way do they glamorise it?

"Glamorising violence" is a phrase that is often used, but I've never seen it happen.
In what way is it glamorous?

Steve

[Moor Larkin]

I've certainly seen Kill Bill (both parts). But although they wallow in violence, in what way do they glamorise it?

"Glamorising violence" is a phrase that is often used, but I've never seen it happen.
In what way is it glamorous?

Movies:
Pretty, blond and bloody



real life:
Ugly, brutal and bloodily pointless



I don't imagine the Indian guy will be running about with Japanes swords wreaking vengeance however....

Of course, without violence, many many movies would be utterly pointless and boring, but they generally involve a modicum of plot, dialogue and at least a modicum of purpose and perhaps, quite often... the violence mostly happens off-screen.

[Kitty Whiskers]

"Glamorising violence" is a phrase that is often used, but I've never seen it happen.
In what way is it glamorous?

Steve

JMO, but I think the glamorisation is actually of the violent offender not of the violence per se. Hollywood LOVES an amoral, kick-bottom vigalante with a glib remark at the end of a blood-fest. If that violence can be justified by some wafer-thin moral 'right', the more the better. Get a guy whose wife and kids have been shot in the first act and he has carte blance to kill half a city and destroy as much property as he can. Get another guy (or girl) who 'the man' has pushed too far, and he can punch out whomever he pleases. That, unfortunately, is the scary message that gets planted in weak minds.

[Steve Crook]

Movies:
Pretty, blond and bloody

That's the character, not the violence. In what way is the violence glamorised in Kill Bill? It's almost clinical

Steve

[Moor Larkin]

That's the character, not the violence. In what way is the violence glamorised in Kill Bill? It's almost clinical

Well that is the glamour isn't it? there is no pain, there is no real suffering, there is no disablement or crippling and whilst gory it doesn't even look dirty - there is just death. Most victims of violence do not die. I recall the fuss back in the day, about Hitchcock's murder scene in Torn Curtain and I recall him being interviewed about it and he said he wanted to show just how difficult it was to actually KILL a person.

[GoggleboxUK]

Rubbish. Did you see the scene in Kill Bill where Lucy Liu severs the boss' head and plants it on the table? Sure, she's gorgeous but the violence wasn't glamourised. It was what it was; an effective display of a perfectly valid reason why that character should be taken seriously. Excatly what was shown by the reaction to the violence no matter how pretty Lucy Liu's character was.

The whole concept of Kill Bill is revenge driven by bloodlust and betrayal, hardly glamourous to be left in a pool of your own blood at a wedding is it? If someone did that to you would you consider tying them up with pretty doilies and and gently spoonfeed cyanide to them with a gentle smile?

Don't confuse movies with reality or you take the subject to an entirely different level whereby the answer will always be IT ISN'T REAL.

Steve is absolutely correct, you can glamourise a personality, their costume, their surroundings and their dialogue but violence is what it is and no matter how you dress it up it is never glamourous.

I can't even believe you mentioned Saw. Have you seen these films? Show me one iota of glamour in them. It simply doesn't exist and you're confusing graphic violence with glamourised violence.

[Steve Crook]

Well that is the glamour isn't it? there is no pain, there is no real suffering, there is no disablement or crippling and whilst gory it doesn't even look dirty - there is just death. Most victims of violence do not die. I recall the fuss back in the day, about Hitchcock's murder scene in Torn Curtain and I recall him being interviewed about it and he said he wanted to show just how difficult it was to actually KILL a person.

In Kill Bill I, when she's attacking hundreds of gangsters including the one dressed as a little girl with the spiked ball on the chain, there are quite a few of the gangsters who just have limbs chopped off who then run away and are allowed to escape.

But that problem goes back to any swashbuckling film where all the hero has to do is to touch the baddie with a sword for the baddie to die

The depiction of any violence in any film has rarely been realistic. But I don't think I've ever seen any violence on screen that can really be called glamorised.

Steve

[Moor Larkin]

I can't even believe you mentioned Saw. Have you seen these films? Show me one iota of glamour in them. It simply doesn't exist and you're confusing graphic violence with glamourised violence.

I've never watched all of one, but as much as I could have patience with... on the gounds of research you understand.....

The *glamour* is the romanticisation of it..... the concoction of intriguing ways to hurt people. It's age-old I guess and Torture Chambers of the Middle Ages bear testament to human fascinations for visualising cruelty. The other aspect of the glamour in Saw lies in the *cleverness* of the torturer I think, which reflects back a little to kittywhiskers' point about the popularity of the blood-thirsty *moral* hero.

There are many *bloody* films I do like and they strike a chord with me about their underlying theme or story-line. I rather liked Hostel when I saw it and felt it had something to say, at the end of it all. I confess to being a bit squeamish about blades, rather than bullets so there is always an element of personal taste to any of such a debate of course.

[Moor Larkin]

But that problem goes back to any swashbuckling film where all the hero has to do is to touch the baddie with a sword for the baddie to die

The depiction of any violence in any film has rarely been realistic.

Oh yes, I quite agree with that. I recall watching Danger Man as a small boy and a man was shot and flew backwards over a railing. I was baffled because cowboys always just crumpled gently and slumped to the floor. I asked my dad why? He said becasue that is what bullets really do; he spared me the other gory details of what bullets do I guess..

But I don't think I've ever seen any violence on screen that can really be called glamorised.

Did MY notion of *glamourisation* begin with Sam Peckinpah and his slow-mo's ? The Dances of Death ? I seem to recall his westerns being criticised for making violence look beautiful somehow. I guess nowadays his film treatment would more likely be called *realistic*.

[Steve Crook]

I've never watched all of one, but as much as I could have patience with... on the gounds of research you understand.....

The *glamour* is the romanticisation of it..... the concoction of intriguing ways to hurt people. It's age-old I guess and Torture Chambers of the Middle Ages bear testament to human fascinations for visualising cruelty. The other aspect of the glamour in Saw lies in the *cleverness* of the torturer I think, which reflects back a little to kittywhiskers' point about the popularity of the blood-thirsty *moral* hero.

There are many *bloody* films I do like and they strike a chord with me about their underlying theme or story-line. I rather liked Hostel when I saw it and felt it had something to say, at the end of it all. I confess to being a bit squeamish about blades, rather than bullets so there is always an element of personal taste to any of such a debate of course.

I agree with Gogglebox - Show me one iota of glamour in them. It simply doesn't exist and you're confusing graphic violence with glamorised violence. I don't really think that there is any such thing as glamorised violence

Steve

[ZogmoreTheAncient]

The distinctions you make GGB don't seem to be very real. The entire film industry collectively supports the use of sensationalism for profit. This has LONG ago surpassed the mere 'violence' the entire 80s and 90s has busily promoted, glamorising every last bit of it by having it on screen at all, from the gory to the public relations department smoothed. Nowadays they are attacking far more than human peacefulness. Nowadays films are glamorising stupidity itself, to the highest degree possible. Even as short a while ago as the time Fight Club was made we might have been able to go to a cinema and find SOMETHING which made a person more intelligent over the course of an hour, but now we are finally in the hinterland of a dead media age. Bring on the online anarchic video art movement, is what I say. Who here has seen the amazing british video artist Alexis Milne's work? It investigates atttitudes of violence in the media very fully. A lot of depth to it. Go on GGB - you seem very keen on thinking about this stuff. Google the lad, he's an amazing artist.

The Zog