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  1. #81
    Senior Member Country: UK golightly's Avatar
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    Surprised there are rumours of race issues surrounding any of the Beatles, but on reflection, having grown up in 50s Liverpool, there was an intense antisemitism in the area that I grew up in. But that was North Liverpool which is or was different than the Beatles South, they even speak with a different accent, milder in the South, and it was a much more affluent area, if you are well fed and well housed you don't need to look for people to blame for your predicament. I can't believe Paul had any race issues, no way. Regarding Lennon, he was what we called a 'nark', someone who would do anything to upset people.
    Last edited by golightly; 12-06-11 at 02:46 PM.

  2. #82
    Senior Member Country: UK golightly's Avatar
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  3. #83
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    I went into the Apple shop just before Hey Jude was being released. The windows were whited-out, and I thought: "Great opportunity. Baker Street, millions of buses going around…" So, before anyone knew what it meant, I scraped Hey Jude out of the whitewash.
    A guy who had a delicatessen in Marylebone rang me up, and he was furious: "I'm going to send one of my sons round to beat you up." I said, "Hang on, hang on — what's this about?" and he said: "You’ve written Jude in the shop window." I had no idea it meant "Jew", but if you look at footage of Nazi Germany, "Juden Raus" was written in whitewashed windows with a Star of David. I swear it never occurred to me.
    I said: "I'm really sorry," and on and on… "some of my best friends are Jewish, really. It's just a song we've got coming out. If you listen to the song you'll see it’s nothing to do with any of that – it's a complete coincidence." He was just about pacified in the end.
    — Paul McCartney, The Beatles Anthology

  4. #84
    Senior Member Country: Great Britain Mark O's Avatar
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    I was under the impression Jude was an english language first name also, as in Jude Law.

    On sounds of the 60's yesterday morning Brian Matthews mentioned the Beatles received their orders of empire at this time of year, some 'upper crust' figures were appalled at this, one even returned his OBE, Brian went on to say that John said 'we received ours for entertaining people, they received theirs for killing people', not afraid of controversy our John.

  5. #85
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark O View Post
    I was under the impression Jude was an english language first name also, as in Jude Law.
    It is. Nobody objected to it as a name or as a song title. But writing it on shop windows has connotations and a bad precedent.



    Steve

  6. #86
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    It's like Macca was in a real-life episode of 'Curb Your Enthusiasm'. Amazing how many chance things had to happen for this unfortunate coincidence to occur (john & cynthia separate, drive to cynthia's, hey jules, jude scans better, apple boutique closing down, whitewashed windows, upcoming single, et. voila).

  7. #87
    Senior Member Country: Great Britain
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    I'm not particularly attached to The Beatles and I'm no expert, but I do respect their achievements. Wasn't there an out-take of one of their later songs that included some anti Pakistani sentiment ? I'm not trying to stir things up and perhaps I am wrong ?

  8. #88
    Senior Member Country: England cornershop15's Avatar
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    Yes. Some kind of satire, apparently. And curiously absent from the Anthology CDs!:

    If you can understand what they're singing you're a better man than I am, Gunga Din.

    Oh dear. Put my (politically incorrect) foot in it again, have I? I was more concerned to learn about John's mocking of (what he referred to as) "cripples". George kind of understood why he'd pull faces at the camera and put it down to his way of handling his distress. I think The Goons were the same after some of the horrors they witnessed during WWII, relying on unusual humour to deal with the situation. One of the reasons I don't have a keen sense of humour - there's usually a laugh at someone's expense.

    Back on topic next time, please! With faces like Oliver Hardy and Fred Astaire frustratingly elusive, I might introduce some of my alternative discoveries of the album cover's subjects, from my 'Sgt. Pepper Extra' folder.

  9. #89
    Senior Member Country: UK golightly's Avatar
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    I think this definitely proves that the Beats were never anti-semitic.

  10. #90
    Senior Member Country: Great Britain
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    Am I correct that the famous Sgt Pepper suits were not made for The Beatles, but were rented ? If so, does anyone know who they were made for ? Also who made them ?

  11. #91
    Banned Country: North Korea
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornershop15 View Post
    Yes. Some kind of satire, apparently. And curiously absent from the Anthology CDs!:

    If you can understand what they're singing you're a better man than I am, Gunga Din.

    Oh dear. Put my (politically incorrect) foot in it again, have I? I was more concerned to learn about John's mocking of (what he referred to as) "cripples". George kind of understood why he'd pull faces at the camera and put it down to his way of handling his distress. I think The Goons were the same after some of the horrors they witnessed during WWII, relying on unusual humour to deal with the situation. One of the reasons I don't have a keen sense of humour - there's usually a laugh at someone's expense.

    Back on topic next time, please! With faces like Oliver Hardy and Fred Astaire frustratingly elusive, I might introduce some of my alternative discoveries of the album cover's subjects, from my 'Sgt. Pepper Extra' folder.

    Interesting. This from Wiki:

    Around the time he was developing the lyrics to "Get Back", McCartney satirised the "Rivers of Blood speech" by former British Cabinet minister Enoch Powell in a brief jam that has become known as the "Commonwealth Song". The lyrics included a line "You'd better get back to your Commonwealth homes". The group improvised various temporary lyrics for "Get Back" leading to what has become known in Beatles' folklore as the "No Pakistanis" version.[7] This version is more racially charged, and addresses attitudes toward immigrants in America and Britain: "...don't need no Puerto Ricans living in the USA"; and "don't dig no Pakistanis taking all the people's jobs".[8] In an interview in Playboy magazine in 1980, Lennon described it as "...a better version of 'Lady Madonna'. You know, a potboiler rewrite."[9]
    On 23 January, the group (now in Apple Studios)[10] tried to record the song properly; bootleg recordings preserve a conversation between McCartney and Harrison between takes discussing the song, and McCartney explaining the original "protest song" concept. The recording captures the group deciding to drop the third verse largely because McCartney does not feel the verse is of high enough quality, although he likes the scanning of the word "Pakistani". Here the song solidifies in its two-verse, three-solo format.
    [edit]

  12. #92
    Senior Member Country: England cornershop15's Avatar
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    Thanks, Graeme. You won't be surprised to learn I disagree with John Lennon's view that No Pakistanis was "better" than Lady Madonna. He had a habit of dismissing Beatles tunes, like Run for Your Life. He's often quoted as saying they were "knocked off" in a few minutes. I wouldn't have minded coming up with It's Only Love, a favourite of mine but not his.

    Quote Originally Posted by billy bentley View Post
    Am I correct that the famous Sgt Pepper suits were not made for The Beatles, but were rented ? If so, does anyone know who they were made for ? Also who made them ?
    I thought someone would have answered this by now, Billy. My understanding has always been that they were made by Berman's and Nathan's. This is what Paul McCartney said in an interview for The Beatles Anthology book:

    For our outfits, we went to Berman's, the theatrical costumiers, and ordered up the wildest things, based on old military tunics. That's where they sent you if you were making a film: "Go down to Berman's and get your soldier suits". They had books there that showed you what was available. Did we want Edwardian or Crimean? We just chose oddball things from everywhere and put them together. We chose all our own materials: "You can't have that, he's having it ..."

    We went for bright psychedlic colours, a bit like the fluorescent socks you used to get in the Fifties (they came in very pink, very turquoise or very yellow). At the back of our minds I think the plan was to have garish uniforms which would actually go against the idea of uniform. At the time everyone was into that 'I Was Lord Kitchener's Valet' thing
    [a boutique]; kids in bands wearing soldiers' outfits and putting flowers in the barrels of rifles.

    I've always loved that image and am happy to have found it on the Internet:


    Caption: On October 22, 1967, Bernie Boston photographed his iconic Flower Power photograph, which
    featured Vietnam War protester George Harris inserting flowers into a National Guardsmen’s rifle barrel.


    (From the Frankly Penn blog)

  13. #93
    Senior Member Country: Great Britain
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    Cheers Cornershop, I actually went to Bermans and Nathans twice in the late 1970's.

  14. #94
    Senior Member Country: England cornershop15's Avatar
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    I went there just the once, some time in the 1980s, but recall very little of my visit, not even any costumes. No doubt, I pointed out the Sgt. Pepper connection, had a quick look and left.

    In hindsight, I should have used this photo to represent the Madame Tussauds waxworks:


    Wax Figures Of Pop Group The Beatles

    (L-R) George Harrison, John Lennon, Ringo Starr and Paul McCartney are seen on display at the Tokyo Tower Wax Museum on 24th March 2006 in Tokyo, Japan. The wax figures were created in 1964 by the wax museum Madame Tussaud's. The McCartney figure was lost so a different one is used in this display. (Photo by Koichi Kamoshida/Getty Images)

  15. #95
    Senior Member Country: UK Freddy's Avatar
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    Some interesting info on here from Bill Harry



    Sixties City: Bill Harry's Sixties

  16. #96
    Member Country: Ukraine
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    It's my contribution

  17. #97
    Member Country: Ukraine
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    and this:

  18. #98
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    "Do you agree about the Bobby Breen picture?"
    Source photo by Bobby Breen from film "Rainbow on the River". It's reconstruction from M. Cooper's photo.
    But in film I not find this image...

  19. #99
    Member Country: Canada Gretsch66's Avatar
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    Hello folks. New member here and I intend to start with a bang.
    After going through 1000's of images, I have uncovered some holy grail to share with any that may be interested.
    Dec 1953/ Ben Ross Marilyn Monroe session produced the image that was used on the Pepper cover.
    Dennis Hopper was the one responsible for the photo of Larry Bell.
    Marlene Dietrich image came from an expose' of Marlene's home.
    Huntz Hall? Lobby Card from "Angels With Dirty Faces".

    Vargas Girl? Better image restored.

    More to come. Still looking for Issy Bonn image.
    Attached Images
    Last edited by Gretsch66; 17-01-12 at 03:23 AM.

  20. #100
    Senior Member Country: England cornershop15's Avatar
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    Fantastic stuff, Gretsch! Many thanks for tracking those down. I'm especially thrilled to see that photo of Larry Bell and must find out more about his connection with Dennis Hopper. Ironic that there should be a couple of advertising posters in the background. I'm a fanatical collector of them on the Internet (vintage ones I hasten to add).

    Very curious to know where you found those pictures of Marilyn Monroe and Marlene Dietrich as well but am a bit disappointed with myself for not locating the Huntz Hall image. I must have seen that lobby card/poster more than a few times. It seems so obvious now. Very well done with all these discoveries.

    Thanks also to Freddy and RimS. I soon lost momentum with this thread and have hardly thought about it since (usually inspired by the album's anniversary) so apologise for my late response. That does indeed look like the Bobby Breen picture. Excellent

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