oot ! ya wee bawbag

[captainhaddock]

this is what has been missing from the uk for a while
big fella gets tired of spoilt foul mouthed fare dodging brat spoiling the train ride for everyone else and chucks the wee bawbag off
excellent
if due to some hangover from the last goverment the big guy gets charged with assault i and i bet thousands of others will happily chip in for defence costs

[Steve Crook]

this is what has been missing from the uk for a while
big fella gets tired of spoilt foul mouthed fare dodging brat spoiling the train ride for everyone else and chucks the wee bawbag off
excellent
if due to some hangover from the last goverment the big guy gets charged with assault i and i bet thousands of others will happily chip in for defence costs

I love the way you turn everything into political point-scoring - even when it's got absolutely nothing to do with politics

Steve

[paul kersey]

Pity the Train wasn't moving !

[Moor Larkin]

'Big man' train passenger to be quizzed by police after alleged fare-dodger makes official complaint - The Daily Record

I imagine the guard had told the driver to hold the train until the ticketless man was taken off. I was on a bus recently when the driver turned the engine off in possibly similar circumstances. All us other passengers were getting mightily cheesed off with the impasse.

[paul kersey]

I just knew that the police would become involved. What needs to happen now is for the case to be dropped so that the "Big man" can live his life without fear of punishment. Had this not been given publicity would the young gentleman have been able to complain to the Police as I am sure there would have been no witnesses ?

[christoph404]

I hate seeing physical violence being inflicted on people who are not posing a physical threat. I felt uncomfortable watching a big bear of a man assaulting a skinny little student half his size, okay the student was annoying and being very lippy with the train guard who was also being rude in his own way,but there is some question as to whether he is a fare dodger anyway because he maintains that in order to save money he had bought two singles and a mix up had meant he was left with two tickets for the same direction, well that's his story anyway. Scotrail issued a statement saying other passengers should not get involved in confrontations between the guard and passengers because apparently Scotrail staff are trained in conflict management, well if that is so I would say the guard on that train is useless in that role or he missed out on the training. The only authority with the power to physically remove someone from a train is the police, not the train guard or other passengers, and having travelled on that train from Edinburgh myself on many occasions I know that the Police Station in Falkirk is minutes away from the train station so a simple call to them would have resolved this. I would say that train conductor by accepting the offer from another passenger to physically remove this guy is overstepping his mark completely and is condoning assault on his train, he should have prevented that by firmly declining that offer because any physical confrontation has the potential to escalate. Also, he was a type 1 diabetic, all his meds were in his bag, thats why he tried to get back on the train, he wasn't aware that ,luckily, his bag was bunged off onto the platform...but what if it wasn't? If that student had jumped up and landed a left hook on the elderly conductor then by all means physical intervention would be justified, but he didn't. That big bloke ought to be cautioned by the police and told not to assault "fair dodgers" on the train, the conductor needs to be reprimanded and undergo further training for allowing it to happen. Just call the police, or get the train moving and the police meet the train at the next stop, job done.
" take the law into your own hands and the next thing you know you will be shooting your next door neighbour because his dog pisses on your lawn" Clint Eastwood, Magnum Force

[RogerThornhill]

I hate seeing physical violence being inflicted on people who are not posing a physical threat. I felt uncomfortable watching a big bear of a man assaulting a skinny little student half his size, okay the student was annoying and being very lippy with the train guard who was also being rude in his own way,but there is some question as to whether he is a fare dodger anyway because he maintains that in order to save money he had bought two singles and a mix up had meant he was left with two tickets for the same direction, well that's his story anyway. Scotrail issued a statement saying other passengers should not get involved in confrontations between the guard and passengers because apparently Scotrail staff are trained in conflict management, well if that is so I would say the guard on that train is useless in that role or he missed out on the training. The only authority with the power to physically remove someone from a train is the police, not the train guard or other passengers, and having travelled on that train from Edinburgh myself on many occasions I know that the Police Station in Falkirk is minutes away from the train station so a simple call to them would have resolved this. I would say that train conductor by accepting the offer from another passenger to physically remove this guy is overstepping his mark completely and is condoning assault on his train, he should have prevented that by firmly declining that offer because any physical confrontation has the potential to escalate. Also, he was a type 1 diabetic, all his meds were in his bag, thats why he tried to get back on the train, he wasn't aware that ,luckily, his bag was bunged off onto the platform...but what if it wasn't? If that student had jumped up and landed a left hook on the elderly conductor then by all means physical intervention would be justified, but he didn't. That big bloke ought to be cautioned by the police and told not to assault "fair dodgers" on the train, the conductor needs to be reprimanded and undergo further training for allowing it to happen. Just call the police, or get the train moving and the police meet the train at the next stop, job done.
" take the law into your own hands and the next thing you know you will be shooting your next door neighbour because his dog pisses on your lawn" Clint Eastwood, Magnum Force

Very well said christoph, I entirely agree. Shame on anyone who wants to turn that bully into a hero.

[Freddy]

One of my friends caught someone stealing from his shop, he held him with one hand while phoning the police with his mobile. After waiting for over twenty minutes the police still hadn't turned up so he had to let him go.

I don't think the chap who threw the abusive young man was a bully, and it's the papers who are turning him into a hero, I guess he'd rather get on with his life.

[CaptainWaggett]

I'm sure not one of those people cheering the bully ever sat on the top of a bus hoping the conductor wouldn't get round to them

[RogerThornhill]

I don't think the chap who threw the abusive young man was a bully, and it's the papers who are turning him into a hero, I guess he'd rather get on with his life.

Of course he is a bully, a bully picks on someone who is physically weaker than themself. What would have been the reaction of this bully if the fare dodger had been a 30 year old 6 foot something 16 stoner? Would he then have been so keen to play the tough guy. the big man? I know that he wouldn't, he would have stayed in his seat and kept quiet. As it was he sized up the young lad and realised that he was a soft target for him, that's bullying.

[Moor Larkin]

Of course he is a bully, a bully picks on someone who is physically weaker than themself. What would have been the reaction of this bully if the fare dodger had been a 30 year old 6 foot something 16 stoner? Would he then have been so keen to play the tough guy. the big man? I know that he wouldn't, he would have stayed in his seat and kept quiet. As it was he sized up the young lad and realised that he was a soft target for him, that's bullying.

He was perhaps deluded by the circumstances into thinking he *was in the right*. It often happens in crowds, and bigger people think they are protecting everyone else by offering their brawn. He's obviously going to be found guilty of ABH, so it should be an open and shut case, if the youngster decides to press charges. It's not like the big man can hide. - other than behind public opinion.

[Freddy]

He wasn't only a fare dodger though was he, he was being aggressive and swearing when there where children nearby.

[christoph404]

He wasn't only a fare dodger though was he, he was being aggressive and swearing when there where children nearby.

I thought the guard was being quite aggressive, he was standing right over him bellowing down at him, the student was being cheeky but swearing on an Edinburgh to Perth Scotrail train is quite normal in my experience and its usually the children who are the worst culprits. Would the guard and that big lump have treated a pensioner in the same way for example? I doubt it, this is a clear example of abuse and assault by both the train guard and that big bully.

[Freddy]

I thought the guard was being quite aggressive, he was standing right over him bellowing down at him, the student was being cheeky but swearing on an Edinburgh to Perth Scotrail train is quite normal in my experience and its usually the children who are the worst culprits. Would the guard and that big lump have treated a pensioner in the same way for example? I doubt it, this is a clear example of abuse and assault by both the train guard and that big bully.

The guard ( has the appearance of being over 60, unfit, wears glasses) was simply asking him for the correct ticket which is his job. Can you point out where he is bellowing or being aggressive please as I can't find it.

[Arfur Teacake]

I thought the guard was being quite aggressive, he was standing right over him bellowing down at him, the student was being cheeky but swearing on an Edinburgh to Perth Scotrail train is quite normal in my experience and its usually the children who are the worst culprits. Would the guard and that big lump have treated a pensioner in the same way for example? I doubt it, this is a clear example of abuse and assault by both the train guard and that big bully.

Well perhaps it was time that swearing and uncontrollable children on the Edinburgh to Perth Scotrail was not considered 'normal' eh?

What would you do if a child (ie someone smaller than yourself) smashed your living room window? just let them away with it because you might consider yourself a bully?
because next night he would be back to smash your bathroom window.

Apparently Napoleon and Hitler were quite short.

[christoph404]

The guard ( has the appearance of being over 60, unfit, wears glasses) was simply asking him for the correct ticket which is his job. Can you point out where he is bellowing or being aggressive please as I can't find it.

Well right from the beginning he is standing over him bellowing down at him like a demented football ref "Off...Off...Off...." I think this is a subject that has divided people in their reaction, I personally find it shocking that folk think that the use of unnecessary force is fine and that its okay for a big bully to manhandle a slightly built student off a train like that. Two wrongs don't make a right, the train guard should have just called the police and that would have been the end of it, instead he gave permission for an assault to take place on his train. Anyway, Im off this topic now, as I said its divided opinion for and against, anyway, that big bloke has proved how tough he is, maybe he'll get his heavyweight contest one day..doubt it tho.

[christoph404]

Well perhaps it was time that swearing and uncontrollable children on the Edinburgh to Perth Scotrail was not considered 'normal' eh?

What would you do if a child (ie someone smaller than yourself) smashed your living room window? just let them away with it because you might consider yourself a bully?
because next night he would be back to smash your bathroom window.

Apparently Napoleon and Hitler were quite short.

Napoleon wasn't short at all, he was slightly above average height for the period @ 5'6'..... Im not saying people should get away with wrong doing, but people should not use force or physical assault as the first option when other options or procedures are available, in this instance the Transport Police should have been called to deal with it. That slightly built little student was not offering any physical threat whatsoever and I think the only reason that big guy tore into him was precisely because of that, and I don't approve of that at all.

[Rowdon]

I don't think the guy who threw the kid off wanted to hurt him, just get him off the train. I don't think that's bullying, but it is using force. In an interview with the filmer, he said that he only started filming after this had been going on for five minutes with the student just sitting there swearing at the guard - he didn't just whip out his camera and start filming the moment the guard turned up. The whole thing is no big deal and the student making a complaint is ridiculous. He was lippy to a bloke doing his job, caused a lot of inconvenience just for his own comfort, and then moans when people push him off the train. As the filmer said, he could have just said "I don't have a ticket, I'll buy one now." - If all that stuff about his having two singles is true, why didn't he mention that to the guard instead of thinking "The best way to handle this is just to mutter "Feck off" every ten seconds"? Let me see if I can find the interview...

Here it is ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16173835

and saying a similar thing here ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-16179152


Question is, will this bloke learn that you can't ause people who are stuck doing their job, or that you can successfully sue if you get publicity, regardless of whether you behaved antisocially or not?

[Moor Larkin]

I don't think the guy who threw the kid off wanted to hurt him, just get him off the train.

That is the confusing bit, especially as it happened off camera. Christoph mentioned *dividing lines* - the evident nasty facial injury the student suffered is said to have happened because the big man *literally* threw him off the train and he landed on the concrete. If the big man had deposited the chap on his feet, on the platform, then I doubt there would be much division. The big man may have a price to pay, not for getting the lad off the train, but for the injury caused at the very end of that process - an injury seemingly unecessary as the big man had Might fully on his side.

A nice movie ending would be for the big man to go round the lad's house, apologise for the cuts, and maybe take him a few beers. In turn, the lad would accept he was being bang out of order, accept the apology and honour would be served. However, this isn't a movie and I daresay the hungry lawyers are already licking their lips at the fees and good publicity for their firms and maybe some compo might be in the offing.......

A nice test for Scottish law anyhow, which has that excellent murder verdict of Unproven to prove it's capacity for compromise.....

[christoph404]

Hi Moor, that verdict is actually "Not Proven" to give it its correct term and essentially means "not guilty and don't do it again" I think the USA tried to introduce that verdict into their legal system after the fiasco of the OJ Simpson trial, the idea was eventually vetoed.