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  1. #1
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    Watching Clydebuilt: The Ships That Made the Commonwealth on BBC 4 this evening I happened to have the subtitles on when presenter David Hayman was talking about the building of HMS Hood. David said that the Hood "weighed in at 42,000 tons". But the subtitler wrote that as "42,000 tonnes".

    Now in the United Kingdom the ton is defined as 2,240 avoirdupois pounds (1,016 kg). The tonne (metric ton), is defined as 1,000 kg (2,204.6 lbs). Not a vast difference between them, but a significant difference. Especially when you're dealing with large numbers of them like in the mass of the Hood.

    Or does everyone use tonne instead of ton nowadays - and they neglected to tell me?

    Steve

  2. #2
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    Probably automated subtitling equipment. It also often produces quite amusingly inaccurate interpretations when following live audio.

  3. #3
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    Yes, I've seen some real howlers in subtitles

    In the Criterion DVD of Black Narcissus (1947), Sister Clodagh (Deborah Kerr) is telling Mr Dean (David Farrar) about her history before becoming a nun. She says "I come from a small town called Inniskelly" but the 'd' from "called" must have lingered a bit in the ear of the subtitler and it was written as "I come from a small town called Dennis Kelly"


    Steve

  4. #4
    Senior Member Country: United States will.15's Avatar
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    Try to read subtitles written by people who barely understand English. A lot of Asian movies have that problem.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Country: England darrenburnfan's Avatar
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    There's a video on YouTube of a woman speaking with a very broad Yorkshire accent that the automated subtitling system can't understand. So the subtitles come out as complete gibberish.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Crook View Post
    Watching Clydebuilt: The Ships That Made the Commonwealth on BBC 4 this evening I happened to have the subtitles on when presenter David Hayman was talking about the building of HMS Hood. David said that the Hood "weighed in at 42,000 tons". But the subtitler wrote that as "42,000 tonnes".

    Now in the United Kingdom the ton is defined as 2,240 avoirdupois pounds (1,016 kg). The tonne (metric ton), is defined as 1,000 kg (2,204.6 lbs). Not a vast difference between them, but a significant difference. Especially when you're dealing with large numbers of them like in the mass of the Hood.

    Or does everyone use tonne instead of ton nowadays - and they neglected to tell me?

    Steve
    Being a naval vessel, at least the tonnage is actually weight (being the displacement tonnage). What is annoying is people using a merchant ship's Goss Tonnage and referring to it as weight (as in the Titanic weighed 46,000 tons). Gross Tonnage is a measure of volume, the formula used to be 100 cubic feet of permanently enclosed space equals one Gross Register Ton, today a complicated metric based formula is used to arrive at much the same result. This is the reason that modern cruise ships have vast Gross Tonnages, a ship with similar hull dimensions to the original Queen Mary (81,000 GRT) will have a Gross Tonnage of around 150,000 due to their enormous superstructures. In spite of this, I have seen Gross Tonnages "converted" to tonnes as if it were weight!

  7. #7
    Senior Member Country: UK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Crook View Post
    Yes, I've seen some real howlers in subtitles

    In the Criterion DVD of Black Narcissus (1947), Sister Clodagh (Deborah Kerr) is telling Mr Dean (David Farrar) about her history before becoming a nun. She says "I come from a small town called Inniskelly" but the 'd' from "called" must have lingered a bit in the ear of the subtitler and it was written as "I come from a small town called Dennis Kelly"


    Steve
    Lovely chap Dennis - I knew his father.

  8. #8
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by odeonman View Post
    Being a naval vessel, at least the tonnage is actually weight (being the displacement tonnage). What is annoying is people using a merchant ship's Goss Tonnage and referring to it as weight (as in the Titanic weighed 46,000 tons). Gross Tonnage is a measure of volume, the formula used to be 100 cubic feet of permanently enclosed space equals one Gross Register Ton, today a complicated metric based formula is used to arrive at much the same result. This is the reason that modern cruise ships have vast Gross Tonnages, a ship with similar hull dimensions to the original Queen Mary (81,000 GRT) will have a Gross Tonnage of around 150,000 due to their enormous superstructures. In spite of this, I have seen Gross Tonnages "converted" to tonnes as if it were weight!
    Weight is different to mass (or it can be)

    People often confuse mass and weight. Remember that weight is a force, and is measured in newtons. Mass is measured in kilograms (kg).

    Steve

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Crook View Post
    Weight is different to mass (or it can be)

    People often confuse mass and weight. Remember that weight is a force, and is measured in newtons. Mass is measured in kilograms (kg).

    Steve
    Gross Tonnage is neither, it is space!

  10. #10
    Senior Member Country: UK Nick Cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Crook View Post
    Watching Clydebuilt: The Ships That Made the Commonwealth on BBC 4 this evening I happened to have the subtitles on when presenter David Hayman was talking about the building of HMS Hood. David said that the Hood "weighed in at 42,000 tons". But the subtitler wrote that as "42,000 tonnes".

    Now in the United Kingdom the ton is defined as 2,240 avoirdupois pounds (1,016 kg). The tonne (metric ton), is defined as 1,000 kg (2,204.6 lbs). Not a vast difference between them, but a significant difference. Especially when you're dealing with large numbers of them like in the mass of the Hood.

    Or does everyone use tonne instead of ton nowadays - and they neglected to tell me?
    The Hood was 42,00 long tons unloaded (47,040 short tons for the cousins), which equates to 42,667 tonnes, so yes, it should have been rounded to 43,000 tonnes. I think most reporting these days is assumed to be metric.
    Last edited by Nick Cooper; 16-01-17 at 05:48 PM.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Country: UK Nick Cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Crook View Post
    Yes, I've seen some real howlers in subtitles

    In the Criterion DVD of Black Narcissus (1947), Sister Clodagh (Deborah Kerr) is telling Mr Dean (David Farrar) about her history before becoming a nun. She says "I come from a small town called Inniskelly" but the 'd' from "called" must have lingered a bit in the ear of the subtitler and it was written as "I come from a small town called Dennis Kelly"
    Years ago I had the Region 1 DVD of Battle of Britain, before it was available in Region 2, and the English subtitles were so bad they bordered on the hilarious. In the scene at the Britain airfield in France, when once of the characters says, "Get the erks over here," the RAF slang was obviously took much for the subtitler/software, who/which rendered it as, "get the Yanks over here!"

    I can't think of some exact example, but I've seen subtitles in the past that simply replaced "miles" with "kilometres" (and vice versa), but using the same number, without any conversion. In contrast, if you watch A Bridge Too Far with the Dutch subtitles (as you do), the distances are all properly converted from Imperial to metric.
    Last edited by Nick Cooper; 16-01-17 at 05:47 PM.

  12. #12
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Cooper View Post
    Years ago I had the Region 1 DVD of Battle of Britain, before it was available in Region 2, and the English subtitles were so bad they bordered on the hilarious. In the scene at the Britain airfield in France, when once of the characters says, "Get the erks over here," the RAF slang was obviously took much for the subtitler/software, who/which rendered it as, "get the Yanks over here!"
    An "Erk" is RAF slang for an aircraftman, non-flying (of uncertain origin)
    Any decent subtitler or subtitling software should be able to cope with slang

    Steve

  13. #13
    Senior Member Country: United States will.15's Avatar
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    This isn't really off topic.

  14. #14
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by will.15 View Post
    This isn't really off topic.
    Which category do you think that it fits best in then?

    Forum: Off-Topic Discussion

    For infrequent and stimulating chat about everyday topics from the weather to world news; sport and politics; media, newspapers and the web.
    I thought it was an "everyday topic"

    Steve

  15. #15
    Senior Member Country: UK Nick Cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Crook View Post
    An "Erk" is RAF slang for an aircraftman, non-flying (of uncertain origin)
    Any decent subtitler or subtitling software should be able to cope with slang
    I always undesrtood it to be a contraction of a lower class pronunciation of the rank. Wikipedia suggests Cockney, although I'm not entirely convinced of that.

  16. #16
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Cooper View Post
    I always undesrtood it to be a contraction of a lower class pronunciation of the rank. Wikipedia suggests Cockney, although I'm not entirely convinced of that.
    Neither am I (as a Londoner although not a cockney)
    How do you get "Erk" from "aircraftman"?

    Steve

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Crook View Post
    Neither am I (as a Londoner although not a cockney)
    How do you get "Erk" from "aircraftman"?

    Steve
    Would it not be from "Airc" but pronounced as "Erk" ?

  18. #18
    Administrator Country: Wales Steve Crook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walter View Post
    Would it not be from "Airc" but pronounced as "Erk" ?
    I would think that a modern Londoner would be more likely to use the initials and call them an AC. But as we all know - The past is a different country

    Steve

  19. #19
    Senior Member Country: UK Nick Cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Crook View Post
    Neither am I (as a Londoner although not a cockney)
    How do you get "Erk" from "aircraftman"?
    As a Yorkshireman living in London, I think a northern pronunciation makes better sense: "Urrkraft!"

  20. #20
    Senior Member Country: UK Nick Cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walter View Post
    Would it not be from "Airc" but pronounced as "Erk" ?
    Technically, yes, but although generally written as "Erk," it's pronounced more as "Urk."

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