MP's Expenses

[Fellwanderer]

Originally Posted by CaptainWaggett Same with Dennis Skinner and Ken Livingstone (when an MP - don't know what he does now). Both worked out the average salary for their constituency and just drew that.

As did Dave Nellist.

However, I don't have a problem with reasonable expenses - even for the t*****!

[Lord Lucan]

Originally Posted by Freddy If you look into it further and feel the same way then fair enough! I just don't like condemning a group or whatever by the actions of others. If there is only one good man amongst thousands then let us acknowledge him. Freddy

Freddy, I would like to be optomistic, indeed I want to be optimistic about our politicians but sadly you would have to be some optimist to imagine that our politicians have our best interests at heart, and I don't say that easily.

As I mentioned earlier MP's expenses came to £87 million last year and they faught tooth & nail to stop the hoi polloi getting hold of that information...why? I have no problem with MP's claiming reasonable expenses but for christ sake they are taking the pi** and they know it, and thanks to the FoI act they have been found out.

My own local MP says he does not agree with referendums, he says does not agree with "transparrent government" and he thinks MP's expenses should be confidential! clearly he does not believe in democracy but it matters not because we cant do a damned thing about it, we get one vote every five years and thats your lot, we have absolutely no say in the decision making process after that.

This is not democracy, it's an elected dictatorship.

[John Bass]

How many politicians does it take to change a lightbulb??


....None! they don't change anything..

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by Freddy An unfair generalisation of MPs, the majority of who go about their work quietly and diligently.

Name and shame them

Yes, what I said is a generalisation, but I don't think it's an unfair one.

How many MPs are there who have ever done a "real" job? (for more than a few weeks)

The vast majority of those now in office have studied Politics & Economics at University then worked for their chosen party for a while until they earn a nomination for a seat. They try that a few times and finally get elected.

It's no wonder that the vast majority of them have no idea what people really think, about them or about anything else

Steve

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by Lord Lucan Freddy, I would like to be optomistic, indeed I want to be optimistic about our politicians but sadly you would have to be some optimist to imagine that our politicians have our best interests at heart, and I don't say that easily. As I mentioned earlier MP's expenses came to £87 million last year and they faught tooth & nail to stop the hoi polloi getting hold of that information...why? I have no problem with MP's claiming reasonable expenses but for christ sake they are taking the pi** and they know it, and thanks to the FoI act they have been found out. My own local MP says he does not agree with referendums, he says does not agree with "transparrent government" and he thinks MP's expenses should be confidential! clearly he does not believe in democracy but it matters not because we cant do a damned thing about it, we get one vote every five years and thats your lot, we have absolutely no say in the decision making process after that. This is not democracy, it's an elected dictatorship.

It's not a democracy, nobody should claim that it is. But very few countries have a true democracy, certainly no large ones.

What we have is a "representative democracy" where we vote for a person to represent us and then they're free to do what they like and vote how they like.

Of course it's a ridiculous system.
If there are two candidates, one stands for some policies and the other stands for different policies, what are the chances that you agree with everything that either one of them stands for? Very slim.
It's more likely that you'll agree with some policies the one candidate stands for and some other policies that the other candidate stands for.
But they assume that if you vote for them that you agree not only with all the policies that they stood for but every decision they make while they're in power. A ridiculous assumption.

And then add to that the party system where an MP rarely gets a chance to think for himself/herself but they have to follow the party line. So even if you did agree with what your MP said when they were standing they often don't get the chance to vote the way they wanted. A ridiculous system

As for their expenses, many of them are taking advantage of it. But even worse is when they vote themselves a huge salary increase while at the same time they are forcing other people to take a huge pay cut

Steve

[samkydd]

You have to have a corrupt mind to be in politics, and so being able to make a fair bit on the side through expenses is all part of the game. If you can bank your salary and fiddle your expenses it provides a nice little nest-egg for when the public vote someone else in at the next election.

But many politicians have given up lucrative careers as barristers etc to slum it as MPs, so they need to grab as much as possible to maintain their high standard of living whilst in office. Once they've left The Commons they can then get riches beyond their dreams as MEPs, and non-executive directors of banks and other large corporates, and of course the after-dinner speaking circuit! It's a recognised career path for this species of human, culminating with a seat in The Lords!

I find it hard to fathom that people are so gullible that they believe that politicians are in it for the sake of public duty and a concern for the well-being of the country!

[Lord Lucan]

Originally Posted by Steve Crook It's not a democracy, nobody should claim that it is. But very few countries have a true democracy, certainly no large ones. What we have is a "representative democracy" where we vote for a person to represent us and then they're free to do what they like and vote how they like. Of course it's a ridiculous system. If there are two candidates, one stands for some policies and the other stands for different policies, what are the chances that you agree with everything that either one of them stands for? Very slim. It's more likely that you'll agree with some policies the one candidate stands for and some other policies that the other candidate stands for. But they assume that if you vote for them that you agree not only with all the policies that they stood for but every decision they make while they're in power. A ridiculous assumption. And then add to that the party system where an MP rarely gets a chance to think for himself/herself but they have to follow the party line. So even if you did agree with what your MP said when they were standing they often don't get the chance to vote the way they wanted. A ridiculous system As for their expenses, many of them are taking advantage of it. But even worse is when they vote themselves a huge salary increase while at the same time they are forcing other people to take a huge pay cut Steve

How representitive is this so called representitive democracy? 72% of the electorate want referendum over the EU constitution or Lisburn treaty as it's now called, 80% of the electorate think we have to many immigrants in the country and 70% of us don't want the olympics in 2012 but our elected representitives are ignoring us and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. This is not democracy, representitive or otherwise, we live in an elected dictatorship.

[CaptainWaggett]

I would be very, very surprised indeed if a referendum on anything to do with the EU ended up with a 72% turn out.

I do a fair amount of online opinion polls (why yes, I get paid for them). If I'm feeling particularly lazy I don't even read the questions. I'm sure I'm not alone. And when I do read the questions, it's always very obvious what results they are looking for. Do you really think the Daily Mail is going to pay for a survey to find out that most people actually welcome newcomers to our country?

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by Lord Lucan How representitive is this so called representitive democracy? 72% of the electorate want referendum over the EU constitution or Lisburn treaty as it's now called, 80% of the electorate think we have to many immigrants in the country and 70% of us don't want the olympics in 2012 but our elected representitives are ignoring us and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. This is not democracy, representitive or otherwise, we live in an elected dictatorship.

But that's a representative democracy for you. As I said, it's a ridiculous system.

Most of them think that they are there to speak for you on all matters, even on issues that weren't issues when you voted for them so they have no idea of your opinions on the matter.

Steve

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by CaptainWaggett I would be very, very surprised indeed if a referendum on anything to do with the EU ended up with a 72% turn out.

92% of statistics are made up on the spot.
Or did I just make that up?

Steve

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Steve Crook How many MPs are there who have ever done a "real" job? (for more than a few weeks) The vast majority of those now in office have studied Politics & Economics at University then worked for their chosen party for a while until they earn a nomination for a seat. They try that a few times and finally get elected. It's no wonder that the vast majority of them have no idea what people really think, about them or about anything else Steve

Michael Clapham Left school at the age of 15 years without any formal qualifications to begin work at Dodworth Colliery.

Alistair Darling Solicitor

Michael Fabricant A Senior Director and Co-founder of an international broadcast manufacturing and management group

Frank Field Director of the Child Poverty Action Group, Director of the Low Pay Unit until 1980.

Jonathon Aitken

I believe my experience of various walks of life, including the experience of doing honourable business in the Middle East, has strengthened my ability to make such a contribution.

Freddy

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by Freddy Michael Clapham Left school at the age of 15 years without any formal qualifications to begin work at Dodworth Colliery. Alistair Darling Solicitor Michael Fabricant A Senior Director and Co-founder of an international broadcast manufacturing and management group Frank Field Director of the Child Poverty Action Group, Director of the Low Pay Unit until 1980. Jonathon Aitken Freddy

One convicted felon who isn't an MP any more, two charity organisers, one solicitor.
So that leaves one with what most people would call a "real" job

One out of 646. That's about what I thought

Steve

[CaptainWaggett]

Richard Taylor - Retired NHS doctor

Dennis Skinner - 21 years as a miner

John Prescott - merchant seaman and trade union official

Joan Walley - worked for Nacro and various alcohol recovery projects

Glenda Jackson - you might be able to fill that one in for yourself

I could give more examples but you can check Who's Who as easily as me

Plenty of Labour MPs have worked for unions while plenty of Tories have business experience. I think it's possible that most younger MPs have followed what might be called the William Hague route but that certainly isn't the case for the older generation. Even Tony Blair had a career as a barrister. You really can't make assumptions about 650 people.

What's a 'real' job anyway?

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by samkydd You have to have a corrupt mind to be in politics, and so being able to make a fair bit on the side through expenses is all part of the game. If you can bank your salary and fiddle your expenses it provides a nice little nest-egg for when the public vote someone else in at the next election.

Really, I didn't know that!

But many politicians have given up lucrative careers as barristers etc to slum it as MPs, so they need to grab as much as possible to maintain their high standard of living whilst in office. Once they've left The Commons they can then get riches beyond their dreams as MEPs, and non-executive directors of banks and other large corporates, and of course the after-dinner speaking circuit! It's a recognised career path for this species of human, culminating with a seat in The Lords!

Is this all 646 MPs?

I find it hard to fathom that people are so gullible that they believe that politicians are in it for the sake of public duty and a concern for the well-being of the country!

Either you are mistaken or I am gullible

Freddy

[Freddy]

Hazel Blears was the six year old child in a Taste Of Honey.