Mayor of London

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by DB7 Boris news at Tory HQ. (all people over 40 carefully locked away in a cupboard)

They didn't seem to be sure just based on the numbers. They had to wait until the announcer said "officially declare" that they gave the big cheer

Steve

[christoph404]

Originally Posted by Steve Crook Quite simply, by reducing the traffic driving in London - there's a lot, but imagine how bad it'd be without the congestion charge. And by using the money raised to fund the Oyster card scheme and pay for improved public transport Steve

TFL and Congestion Charge for London consistently claim that congestion is reduced but independent monitors like Trafficmaster (roads information service) often give a different view. When London's congestion charge expanded to take in the west of the city centre Trafficmaster said there was no change in traffic volume in the new zone and that congestion had increased in some of the perimeter roads with traffic trying to avoid the CC cameras. I have lived in the centre of London at my present address for 12 years, just off Piccadilly and I usually walk everywhere or cycled ( until my bike was pinched last month!)and I have not noticed any change in volume of traffic in my area at all, I think people who were accustomed to driving to work in central London just carry on doing so and the congestion charge is just an added cost to the parking etc that they already pay but I think people who drive into W1 to work can well afford the extra cost. I think the Congestion Charge is a novel way to raise money to improve the bus service, but I think Ken made a mistake introducing bendy buses into London, they are far too long for the streets of London and cause more traffic jams and gridlock than ever because the drivers of these vehicles are often inconsiderate and simply edge across junctions with no real chance of clearing them before the lights change causing frustration for both other road users and pedestrians alike. They are also a menace to cyclists which brings me on to my main dissapointment with Ken, as someone who has cycled around London I can see practically zero improvement in the road lay out and safety features for cyclists.
Im actually all for keeping cars out of London even though I enjoy old classic motors, and driving an open top old banger around Scotland or France is my idea of quality leisure time! I would say keep the congestion charge, increase it ? yes, but Ken was thinking of letting small engined cars in for free, bad idea, more congestion and more pollution. Im just not convinced the congestion charge alone is enough to keep traffic down, people who drive £50k plus 4x4s and other assorted petrol guzzlers see the congestion charge as a minor irritation, my feeling is if the Mayor is concerned with pollution and congestion why allow people to carry on doing it just because they choose or can afford to pay the CC charge? I think something more drastic is required to reduce traffic than just charging people to come into London in cars. I would have thought banning petrol guzzlers altogether and forcing people intent on driving into small engined cars which would still be subject to a C charge or electric vehicles which could remain free, and perhaps some concession for a vehicle that is occupied with more than just the driver? In short, as a resident of W1 I would be very happy to see the streets free of motor cars and more cyclists on the roads but I can't see that change unless something more is done.

[Steve Crook]

TrafficMaster only monitor the major roads. The centre of London doesn't have many major roads. Of course there's going to be a higher volume of traffic around the outside. That's always the way with bypasses and similar schemes to take traffic out of town centres

You haven't noticed any change in the volume of traffic in the Piccadilly area. I would say that's probably due to the Congestion Charge. Everywhere else in the country has seen an increase in the volume of traffic. The charge is holding that back in central London.

I doubt that Ken would have let smaller cars in for free (although it might have been reported that way in unofficial sources). More likely that they wouldn't charge any more for smaller, less polluting cars whereas the big 4x4 monsters which are totally unnecessary anywhere that has roads, would be charged more

Steve

[homeguard]

I don't live in London anymore, although the siblings do, so I don't suppose it will make much difference to my life, but I'd love to know whether or not Londoners miss the open-back bus. And if they do, why can't that bus run on electricity - the old Trolleybuses that we used to have. Does the fact that Boris wants them mean they will come back, or will the Health and Safety police ban their re-introduction?
Regards,
HG
(P.S. Forget about fascist dictators - OK?)

[davidb]

ive drove a london bus for a living ! if youve got a routemaster in front of you and your in a 1 man bus youll never keep up ,alas theres double the wages to pay on the routemaster [ and double the recruitment problems ] so the bus cos dont like them ,never let them palm you off with another reason

[alan gowdy]

I think towards the end Ken had clearly succumbed to the 'Mugabe' syndrome - occupy an office for long enough and you no longer feel obliged to obey the rules and start to behave like a public master rather than public servant. Thatcher was the same.

Ken did a lot that was laudible but also got tangled up with a few very dubious organisations and individuals. I welcome Boris as mayor - if he cocks up he can always be chucked out next time - that's democracy.

[Moggy]

Originally Posted by Steve Crook Even "integrity, probity and a little rationality" aren't requirements for the job in any branch of politics, or most of them would be out of a job. Nobody doubts Boris is an amusing and eccentric character - but would you want him in charge of where you live? Steve

My point precisely - most would be out of a job. I have always liked a line from Seneca - One should not strive to be first amongst people, if we do not at the same time strive to be best. The problem with politics ATM is that the scum floats to the surface. There are some excellent people in politics, on all side, but they are swamped by the nasties. Boris at least in entertaining. And yes, I think he'd be a hoot.
BTW - here is an article from today's Sydney Morning Herald. The person Crosby, referred to, invented "Dog Whistle Politics" - sending out a message, easily denied but which specific constituencies hear. John Howard, the former Australian PM who lost his seat, practised it. It took five elections, but the Australians got rid of the little rodent.
How Boris triumphed in London by not being Boris
How Boris triumphed in London by not being Boris - World - smh.com.au

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by homeguard I don't live in London anymore, although the siblings do, so I don't suppose it will make much difference to my life, but I'd love to know whether or not Londoners miss the open-back bus. And if they do, why can't that bus run on electricity - the old Trolleybuses that we used to have. Does the fact that Boris wants them mean they will come back, or will the Health and Safety police ban their re-introduction? Regards, HG

Routemasters were fun, when we were young and fit. But they were never too much fun in winter, they were very cold. And they weren't much fun for people with babies in prams or pushchairs, people in wheelchairs, people on crutches, old people who couldn't climb that high step, and many others.

And although the open platform was fun to let you "hop-on, hop-off", there were quite a few serious accidents as people did that.

Boris likes the romantic idea of Routemasters but he doesn't go on buses enough to know what they're actually like. He said he was against bendy buses because they knock cyclists over. But then he commissioned designs for a new updated Routemaster that were published in Autocar. By making it longer and wider they managed to fit more seats in. But because he insisted on a front engine like the old Routemasters it had an even longer wheelbase than a bendy bus - so would crush even more cyclists

Steve

[christoph404]

Originally Posted by homeguard I don't live in London anymore, although the siblings do, so I don't suppose it will make much difference to my life, but I'd love to know whether or not Londoners miss the open-back bus. And if they do, why can't that bus run on electricity - the old Trolleybuses that we used to have. Does the fact that Boris wants them mean they will come back, or will the Health and Safety police ban their re-introduction? Regards, HG (P.S. Forget about fascist dictators - OK?)

I loved the old open back routemasters, a limited number run on the number 9 route which travels along Kensington High Street, Piccadilly, Aldwych and I think it carries on to Tower Hill to drop the tourists off. I think the issue with them was that if you were in a wheelchair there was no facility to get on or off whereas on the modern double deckers and dreaded bendy buses there is an electric elevator/ramp that the driver can operate and allow wheelchair users onto the bus, I think Boris is talking about a modern style routemaster which I think would have that feature as well. As for the safety of the old routemasters? allow me to share a disturbing story that I witnessed while cycling around Marble Arch.In front of me I could see some chap racing along the pavement hoping to jump on the rear platform of a traditional routemaster that had just pulled away, a common site in London ,and not unusual for people to fall flat on their face or lose balance and fall off again onto the road after grabbing the hand pole that is so helpfully situated on the routemaster to assist you jumping onto a movig bus! Anyway this guy was sprinting very fast and really should have kown better, he grabbed the pole but lost his footing on the platform so was totaly out of control, hanging on to the pole with his feet draging along the ground, I was watching all of this pedaling along behind the bus, the conducter came onto the platform and I thought he was going to grab him and help him aboard or halt the bus. To my utter shock and disbelief this conducter actually started stamping on this guys hands to make him let go of the pole while screaming at him "let go! let go!" I just thought " what the hell is this maniac trying to do" luckily the bus started to slow down in the traffic and this chap managed to let go and tumble to the ground. I stopped to see if he was okay, a few scrapes and some footprints on his knuckles and in a state of shock.The bus disapeared down the road with conducter looking back with a blank expression on his face.I couldn't actually believe what I'd witnessed at the time, this guy could have been injured or killed. Anyway aside from that I think the routemasters were pretty safe! I think there have been more accidents with the bendy buses but you never know what to expect in London, I've lived here 25 years and I still get dumbstruck with some of the madness I've witnessed here.

[Third Man]

Originally Posted by Steve Crook The clown won Steve

I'm interested in this theory that Steve has, Boris the Clown.. it's obviously a bias labour percieved approach of the man but I do remember a certain Red Ken clowning around with the Green Goddess on UK breakfast TV, when he started out, and I think started is a important thing to remember here.

I've got no political axe to grind but surely putting party politics aside is the best thing in this case as London is a mess and a fresh outlook and approach is a much needed thing.

Recently I've met two people who where fined £50 for encroaching the inner zone of London without knowing, then sent a letter by the bailiffs and then told they would have to pay £400. Red Ken your legacy is one of a money grabbing mayor who was forced to extract money for the over expenditure and gross negligence of your party.

Good luck Boris from a non conservative!

Simon

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by Third Man I'm interested in this theory that Steve has, Boris the Clown.. it's obviously a bias labour percieved approach of the man but I do remember a certain Red Ken clowning around with the Green Goddess on UK breakfast TV, when he started out, and I think started is a important thing to remember here. I've got no political axe to grind but surely putting party politics aside is the best thing in this case as London is a mess and a fresh outlook and approach is a much needed thing. Recently I've met two people who where fined £50 for encroaching the inner zone of London without knowing, then sent a letter by the bailiffs and then told they would have to pay £400. Red Ken your legacy is one of a money grabbing mayor who was forced to extract money for the over expenditure and gross negligence of your party. Good luck Boris from a non conservative! Simon

It's not a party political thing. My opinion of him as a clown is a purely personal thing. I'd think it of him whichever party he belonged to. And it's more than just one act of clowning around on TV. He's done it again and again.

I agree that a fresh outlook is always useful, but why do you think London is in a mess? Apart from the unnecessary expense of the Olympics which is going to be foisted upon us for no benefit that I can see, I think London's been doing very well for the last few decades.

How can anyone drive into the congestion charge zone without noticing? Did they drive with their eyes shut?

There are warning signs all over the place from some distance out and then there are HUGE signs and big road markings when you actually go into the zone

Steve

[davidb]

its all very well arguing who is better for london ,ken or boris ,like we have done on the other thread ,but who would you really like as mayor ? anyone living or dead ,a great historical figure ? a charismatic film star like the americans sometimes prefer ? and why ? wasnt dirty harry aka clint eastwood mayor of somewhere stateside ? perhaps with all the crime there is hed be a good start ! or cliff with his experience of buses would be good for transport ,cant imagine summer holiday would have been much of a film if it had been on one of those awful bendy things

[Third Man]

Originally Posted by Steve Crook I agree that a fresh outlook is always useful, but why do you think London is in a mess? How can anyone drive into the congestion charge zone without noticing? Did they drive with their eyes shut? Steve

OK I'll address the second one first as this one is easy, not everyone is as perceptive or as sharp as you, the two people who I refer too were sixty six and sixty two, I know both personally they are a bit scatty and easily distracted, Ok not decrepit by any standards but just about unaware enough of what to look for and how to understand it and believe me they did not comprehend what was going on. The first person only remembers a flash in their rear mirror and thought they had been done for speeding, how many of thes people fall prey to the congestion charge and it's penalties?

London a mess!! is a bit more of longer subject, I'll give it some serious thought and post tomorrow with a bit more detail as it's late and I'm off to bed.

Simon

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by Third Man OK I'll address the second one first as this one is easy, not everyone is as perceptive or as sharp as you, the two people who I refer too were sixty six and sixty two, I know both personally they are a bit scatty and easily distracted, Ok not decrepit by any standards but just about unaware enough of what to look for and how to understand it and believe me they did not comprehend what was going on. The first person only remembers a flash in their rear mirror and thought they had been done for speeding, how many of thes people fall prey to the congestion charge and it's penalties?

I'd have thought that someone would have to work really hard to miss all the signs. There are a LOT of them on every route into the zone.

Some of them just use the Circle-C symbol


There are other signs on every route which are much more blatant and say in big words that you're about to enter the charging zone.


Then, when you get to the actual start of the zone, there are signs all over the place, by the side of the road, above the road, painted on the road itself

(click on any image in this message for a larger version)

You'd have to be really not paying attention to miss them all.

Steve

[penfold]

Originally Posted by Third Man the two people who I refer too were sixty six and sixty two, I know both personally they are a bit scatty and easily distracted,

Steve is practically that age and he's not scatty or distracted....not often, anyway.
Simon, you have to ask yourself (and I have a 78-year old stepfather with Parkinsons, and he is still a fine driver) if your friends are that scatty and easily distracted, should they be driving, in a city, or anywhere else, for their own safety??