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Off-Topic Discussion For infrequent and stimulating chat about everyday topics from the weather to world news, sport and politics.


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Old 10-06-2008, 09:43 PM
  post #76
Jackdaw is under the weather with grown-up flu.
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Originally Posted by Modestyblaise View Post
I've never felt..remotely 'patriotic'...I don't see the achievements of the country I was born in as much to do with me..neither do I feel the need to apologise for the actions of my forefathers..only if something we are doing is continuing the problem.

I'd be happier if we cut the whole idea of 'nationality' down to size and increased our 'global' outlook - citizen of the earth etc..

I think traditions etc are quaint enough...but the idea of cheering for a bunch of people I don't know just because they were born on the same slice of rock - I find bewildering..

My son is just about the opposite..he says that celebrating winning international events is based on pride in the same government, education system that produced 'you'...but I made no choice in this... I didn't contribute anything to it. So why should I feel 'proud?' i am only 'proud' of achievements that I have contributed to.


Runs and hides...

(Morrissey - who I loved dearly for most of my early adulthood - feels very differently - I still love him (in a non-sexual way) sort of..but his views worry me a bit..

Reposted here after I mucked it up..don't know how to delete the other one..
I pretty much concur with that.
Patriotism also has a nasty relative - Nationalism, and is sometimes attracted too close to him.
I've never been proud to be born right-handed or blue-eyed or dark-haired, since I had no will in those matters either.

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Old 11-06-2008, 08:35 AM
  post #77
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My fave peice of 'Patriotic' British Music is Crown Imperial.......though it's a bit long to be the National Anthem which should really just stay as it is, Singer Ruby Turner was proud to sing the National Anthem at the opening of the Millenium Dome, and I was proud with her!

Long live the Queen!
One thing that really bugs me is that at football cup finals etc in recent years it has been the trend to have the National Anthem or Abide With Me etc sung by some singing star; World Cup 94 I think was Diana Ross, FA Cup this year was Katherine Jenkins and that bird who is linked with Andrew Lloyd Weber.

It completely ruins the whole event because it's unnecessary and feeble (and because they sing their own interpretation which is often slightly different to the proper tune). When it was just the crowd singing conducted by the long dead boiled sweet giver and Union Jack hatted Ken Bailey (maybe accompanied by The Royal Marines Band or someone) it sounded raw, authentic and patriotic.

I suppose that now the working man's game is the darling of the celebrity and corporate circuit they want to cross polenate its main events with pretentious crap to please the prawn sandwich brigade!to accompany their only other foray into the world of culture, a free newspaper CD of Classics Done To Death in TV Adverts! poking out of the slot in their 4WD dashboard!
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Last edited by samkydd; 11-06-2008 at 08:46 AM..
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Old 11-06-2008, 08:56 AM
  post #78
DB7
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I pretty much concur with that.
Patriotism also has a nasty relative - Nationalism, and is sometimes attracted too close to him.
Didn't Andrew Marr approvingly quote Michael Balcon in that the only nationalism worth a damn is cultural nationalism.
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:17 AM
  post #79
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Didn't Andrew Marr approvingly quote Michael Balcon in that the only nationalism worth a damn is cultural nationalism.
Took the words from my mouth! I was about to reply to Modestyblaise who seems to confuse patriotism with xenophobia so I suggest we all look again at the opening sequences of The Lion Has Wings for the point I will try to make.
Patriotism should be about ones culture from ones home and family town and then country to take care of what we should cherish and so to defend these things when they are under attack. That means from weekly dustbin collections to local post offices to foreign invasions that are not welcome. In short, we look after ourselves and then we are strong enought to look after the rest of the world - by example.

This 'one world' notion is a grand notion but we have to expect the rest of the bunch to play ball do we not? Human nature spits on this - put any group of persons together and the biggest and the strongest (and sometimes the most obnoxious) will dictate to the meek. Now look at the world.

Flag waving drunken morons who disgrace the flag (whatever flag) and themselves demean our country and its past heroes who have allowed us to spout these words on these threads.
'You should be kind to us normals, there are not many of us left you know'!
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Old 11-06-2008, 10:28 AM
  post #80
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Ironic that I just went to Yahoo and the headline was:
Govt owns up: only £230 spend on St George's Day - Yahoo! News UK

The footer was a quite accurate piece of pov.

Quote:
Saint George's Day, which falls on April 23, is an annual non-event in England.
It is generally punctuated by breweries trying to cash in and promote a party atmosphere; left-wingers saying that patriotism should be reclaimed from the racists; a variety of English eccentrics; and everyday folk wondering why the English just don't seem to bother.
The fact that Saint George's Day is not a public holiday only adds to the general lack of interest.
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:34 AM
  post #81
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Ironic that I just went to Yahoo and the headline was:
Govt owns up: only £230 spend on St George's Day - Yahoo! News UK

The footer was a quite accurate piece of pov.
The debate over whether we celebrate St George is set to dragon!
"...the chairman of Littlewoods stores made a Keynote speech!"
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:42 AM
  post #82
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The debate over whether we celebrate St George is set to dragon!
DRAGON? Bring it on.................................!

.....You couldn't hear it, if they were shooting at me with howitzers!
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Old 10-07-2008, 10:43 AM
  post #83
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Jerusalem, Peter Watkins style...
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