penfold

Amongst them, certainly...and they're not the same person, obviously; but they have characteristics in common. If you think of Hirst as Elvis, I would have Banksy as Buddy Holly, rather than Tommy Steele....

Bit of a Bay Window, what??

billy bentley

Third Man, If Banksy is the anti-capitalist you say he is (he may well be and he is certainly anti-establishment) do you expect him to go without money ? Banksy art is his work (unless he has a day job) and is entitled to be paid for it. nEating food, going down the pub, buying supplies, having a home, travelling are not exclusive to being pro-capitalist. You don't know what he does with the money he makes, nor do I. Maybe he keeps a harem in St. George's Hill and a has a huge collection of Faberge eggs !

billy bentley

I see Banksy as much more punk rock.

penfold

hmmm...Hirst is Punk, Banksy is Hip Hop??

Bit of a Bay Window, what??

billy bentley

Penfold, by punk rock I meant any easy and inexpensive means of execution, political contenet and a sense of danger. Some have argued that Hip Hop is the Black American equivalent of Punk Rock.

penfold

I would agree....and that Damien Hirst fits the bill with the attitude and content, if not the 'inexpensive means of execution'...

Bit of a Bay Window, what??

Third Man

Well not only do I say he is, his work says it as well and all this anti-establishment thing - it's a fundamental thing to be if your a graffiti artist as is also having a moniker or nome de plume it goes with the job.

At a basic graffiti artist street level Banksy is a sellout just ask any code keeping respectable spray can blazing scribbler you don't produce work for the galleries etc - this code goes back to the original New York city graffiti artists from the late sixties and early seventies, theres a documentary called Style Wars that covers a lot of good ground on this subject and has many interviews with some of the pioneers themselves like Seen.

My comparison with Hirst was I thought quite applicable I know some people who really like his work and in particular believe in his ethics, break out in rash when I tell them I think he's a fraud and want to castigate me, but hell I'm not making judgment on him he's having a laugh while making and producing some damn good art with a lot of times a very smart and clever message - which IS making very good money .

In more ways than one I think he might even remind me of Andy Warhol even more he had plenty of suckers.

Simon

billy bentley

Third Man, I think your comparison of Hirst with Warhol might well be an astuite one. From the little I have learned Warhol seemed to promote the notion that his work was about money and glamour. I think that Hirst's work is about money and death.

With regard to the NY Graffitti scene, nearly all the major artists opted for gallery representation as soon as it was offerred. For obvious reasons this excluded the early taggers and throw ups that showed little variety in their work. I can't remember the exact date or location, but I definitely attended a gallery Graffiti show in NYC in 1980.

Third Man

Well I'm also comparing Banksy with them as well because I think he's going to be just as POPular !

Which ones I know SEEN has a tatoo parlour with links to the artist Mark Bode - Vaughn Bodes son. I didn't know the major graff artists where consigning to the auction houses, which ones are?

Simon

billy bentley

I'll have to get back to you who appeared in the 1980, I remember Lee, Futura 2000, Dondi, Revolt and Zephyr being there, it was very crowded and have to confess I haven't kept up with the Graffitti scene at all. As for ath art market I know practically nothing about it's functions. I wasn't even aware that artists sold direct via Auction houses, I thought they sold in galleries and private collectors/indvividual owners then sold through Auctio houses.