davidb

what do members think of the proposal to be able to hold people suspected of terrorism for 42 days without charge ? i think its totally wrong ,your innocent till proven guilty in the uk ,anyone suspected of this are liable to serve a mini prison sentence even if they are eventually freed without charge !

homeguard

Of course it's wrong. But hasn't anyone else noticed the sinister creep of control now being rolled-out as necessary to combat "terrorism". It started when four thugs, masquerading as 'stewards' threw out that eighty year-old gent from the Labour Party conference, because he didn't agree with the speaker - Jack Straw. Outside the same conference, the police warned and took the details of 46 people who were protesting by holding up anti-Government banners. They did it using legislation brought in under the new raft of terrorism legislation.
Throwing old life-long Labour supporters and party members out of their own conference harks back to the days of Fascism, something I've often seen decried on Britmovie threads. But don't be surprised. It's the old trick the neo-cons and McCarthy-ites were so successful with in America. And if you think only Asian men who look like bombers are going to suffer, I would advise you to think again. I saw many innocent people taken into custody in Northern Ireland. It didn't do our cause any good at all, in fact most military personnel were against it. But Governments under threat, not only from the perceived threat of terrorism but also the real threat of public unrest, will seek ever more restrictive measures in the name of our 'safety'.
I wonder how much it has cost us taxpayers to buy the DUP vote that guaranteed the passing of the Bill. If it is anything like the payout the IRA got, it will be in the region of £72 million. Just watch out for sudden initiatives in Northern Ireland over the coming months.
Regards,
HG

homeguard

It's started according to my broadsheet this morning. Water charges being brought into line with the rest of the British Isles means that Northern Ireland will lose their £200 million subsidy. That's OK say the DUP so long as the £200 million stays in the province. Exactly where in the province it stays is not mentioned. Two years ago, a protestant terrorist group requested £60 million from our taxes for the 'retraining' of their members because the conflict was over. Hmmm. I wonder.
Regards,
HG

Marky B

Shadow Home Secretary David Davis has not only resigned from the shadow Cabinet,but also his seat.
Ta ta
Marky B

I once shot an elephant in my pyjamas - how he got in my pyjamas,I'll never know

davidb

about that david davies ,one word ....... top bloke . its about time someone stood up to the erosion of civil liberties in this country !

Marky B

He was so adamantly against it,and has now resigned,it has given me reservations about the bill.
Ta Ta
Marky B

I once shot an elephant in my pyjamas - how he got in my pyjamas,I'll never know

Marky B

It seems that Davis will put up for re-election and use the by-election as a platform for a public vote against the 42 day measure!
Ta ta
Marky B

I once shot an elephant in my pyjamas - how he got in my pyjamas,I'll never know

DB7

I'm in two minds. I can see why it might backfire as internment did and become recruiting tool, but terror cells are notoriously difficult to untangle and in the past suspects have hot-footed it out of the country.

penfold

It's a stunt, Party Politics, nothing whatsoever to do with our liberty.
Re. the 42 days, terrorism isn't like it was in the 70's...the authorities do need time to sift through hundreds of hard drives to glean a trail, and there simply aren't a huge number of people with that forensic ability. There are all sorts of safeguards in place, I'm a libertarian, but I have no problem with it if it stops the civilian massacres we've endured for too long.

Bit of a Bay Window, what??

Harleybloke

That's two..........................?

.....You couldn't hear it, if they were shooting at me with howitzers!

davidb

drat ! i had someone else down to pick up on that ! ill give everyone a clue who .....

Harleybloke

Reminds me of Mainwaring & Fraser in The Big Screen Dads Army.............

.....You couldn't hear it, if they were shooting at me with howitzers!

homeguard

I can understand why people might consider this move by David Davis a stunt. But equally he might have seen this option as his only way of concentrating all our minds on what is happening. Surely we have to give him the benefit of the doubt. He's up against some pretty slick operators in the Cameron camp, and I'm a Tory, so admitting that sticks in the throat a bit.
I voted for Davis in the Tory leadership contest for three reasons. His upbringing, his military service, and the fact that he was his own man. To quote him then, "If you're looking for someone who is PC, don't vote for me". I liked that honesty, and I don't think he's changed.
He knows that we could do more if we wanted to in controlling terrorist issues. We only have around 5,000 security personnel monitoring around 2,000 suspects at any one time. Our borders are so open that these suspects regularly depart, and others come in. Compare that with America. They employ around 12,000 security people to monitor around 1,600. And have you tried to get into America recently.
Davis knows, probably more than Jacquie Smith, of the true implications of terrorism in this country. After all, he has his pals in the military sections of our security services. If he thinks things have gone too far, I'm with him.
Just a thought or two on the Government's record of pronouncements, and how we might be unwise to believe all they say. The articles loaded below show that despite their assurances that the terrorist threat is over in Northern Ireland, we are investing even more taxes in security in that province, and promising the earth in new ways to catch foreign and home grown suspects, but buying rubbish to do it with. No wonder they want to lock people up who look and behave in a dodgy way - it's not only cheaper, it's all we've got!

SECURITY SERVICE MI5
Fears over delay in expansion strategy
The Government has been warned that an internal row over the funding for MI5's expansion in Northern Ireland could hamper the secret service's work.
The Intelligence and Security Committee says the dispute between the NIO, the Ministry of Defence and "other interested parties" needs to be "concluded quickly".
Planning for MI5's takeover of anti-terrorist operations in Northern Ireland next year is already well under way, but the committee - chaired by former Northern Ireland Secretary Paul Murphy - says no final decision has been taken on who will pay for it.
MI5 currently spends 17% of its budget on fighting Irish terrorism, a drop from 23% two years ago. That figure is not believed to represent a fall in actual spending, but is likely to be the result of increased spending on global terrorism.
The expansion into Northern Ireland will lead to increased costs because MI5 will end up conducting all operations against republican terrorists.
Those operations are currently being run jointly with the PSNI, which has overall responsibility until 2007. The PSNI will still conduct operations against loyalists after the transfer, because those groups are not deemed to be threats against national security.
The NIO is currently paying for the joint operations from its security budget, but the amount of spending has been removed from the Intelligence and Security Committee's report.
"Funding beyond 2007/08 has not yet been identified and the matter is still being negotiated between the NIO, MoD and other interested parties," the report said.
"The committee is concerned that further delay in identifying funding may have an impact on the Service's ability to plan ahead, and we recommend that negotiations be concluded quickly."

What is MI5's annual budget?
The Security Service's budget is paid from the Single Intelligence Account (SIA). This also funds the work of the Secret Intelligence Service and GCHQ. The Security and Intelligence Co-ordinator is the Accounting Officer of the SIA. The SIA for 2004/05, as announced in the Spending Review 2004, is £1,296 million, rising to £1,553 million in 2007/08. A detailed breakdown of the funding allocation for each of the three security and intelligence agencies is not published for security reasons.



“MI5's new computer system will go over budget by at least 50 per cent, according to a report released by the parliamentary Intelligence and Security Committee. This being a report from an intelligence committee, the actual cost of the system (planned or otherwise) is not made public.
The report also warned that a project called SCOPE, a secure web-based information system that would connect the producers and consumers of intelligence, is running three years late.”

Regards,
HG

john audley

Perhaps we should start a new thread 'Great Britons' persons of principal.
David Davis is now top of the list but I would also place Tony Wedgwood Benn
as another who has always struck me to be a man of honesty and principal even if his views are not always shared.

'You should be kind to us normals, there are not many of us left you know'!

Marky B

You can add to that Frank Fields,Anne Widdecombe,Dennis Skinner.
Ta Ta
Marky B

I once shot an elephant in my pyjamas - how he got in my pyjamas,I'll never know