orpheum

I would recommend anything written by Toni and Valmi Holt.I used to go on their battlefield tours.They were extremely knowledgable about their subject

Welcome To Highbury The Home Of Football

homeguard

Excellent choice Penfold. Easier to read, (sensibly-sized letters for older eyes) and only 300 pages is another Imperial War Museum book by Max Arthur, Forgotten Voices. This is a compilation of annecdotes by soldiers in the First World War, and includes some brilliant information on the admin leading up to training and eventual deployment. Some not so nice memories graphically illustrate the bare facts of existence then:
Cpl.Edward Glendinning (Sherwood Foresters) during the battle of Loos 1915.
[i]Coming back over the ground that had been captured that day, the sight was unbelievable. Imagine a flock of sheep lying down sleeping in a field, the bodies were as thick as that. Some were still alive, crying out and begging for water and plucking at our legs as we went by. One hefty chap grabbed me around both knees and held me. "Water, water" he cried. I was just going to take the cork out of my water bottle as I had a little left, but I was immediately hustled on by the man behind me. "Get on, get on, we are going to get lost in 'no-man's land, come on".
So it was a case where compassion had to give way to discipline, and I had to break away from this man to catch up with the man in front.

We lost four more soldiers today in Afghanistan. Bugger Blair.
Regards,
HG

funlover

Simon Schama always gives me the impression of someone who has something in his ear'ole that is irritating him and he can't get it out. Also he sneers atrhe camera rather than talks to it.

TimR

Thanks for the recommendations.

I have already found Forgotten Voices.

Are you gentlemen familar with The Myriad Faces of War by Trevor Wilson - an Australian historian? Well worth reading.

TimR

Yes - that was worth reading, but sometimes there is a slightly sarcastic tone in books written by English historians in recent decades that I don't care for. There is a half-conscious denigration of the past.

penfold

I do know what you mean...isn't hindsight glorious. 'Tommy' you will find free of that, I feel.

Bit of a Bay Window, what??

Steve Crook

'Twas ever thus


TOMMY
by Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)
Written in 1892

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!


Steve

homeguard

Of course. The word 'Empire' is only ever used these days as an example of exploitation. I know a lot of Africans in particular who wish we had never left. Thank goodness there are a few people who continue to help them now they are really being exploited. It gives me a great opportunity to tell the world (or at least this forum) that such a lady, Mrs. Anita Smith of Orlingbury, Northants, was awarded an MBE in the Queen's birthday honours list. Practically single handed she has been keeping a hospital at Bansang in The Gambia going since 1992.

Regards,
HG

homeguard

Thanks TimR. I'll look it up poste haste.
Regards,
HG

TimR

Kipling was an artist with a prophetic voice. He told painful truths because he loved and knew his subjects. I'm sure his references to muddied oafs at the goals didn't please everyone at the height of the Victorian era, but he was concerned with telling the truth.

I am referring to authors - often brilliant writers - who are self-congratulatory and (to my mind) effete in their tone and attitude. The most obvious example is A. N. Wilson: superb writer, but he enjoys cutting his subjects down to size with elaborate ridicule mixed with patronizing admiration. When the subjects are the Victorian giants, he is the one who sometimes makes a fool of himself.

penfold

Still apposite, unfortuately. One of the things I learnt from the book I recommended was how far back 'Tommy Atkins' as a name for the British infantryman went back....most assume to this poem, but it goes back to the Napoleonic Wars. The Army Paybook of that era required a bit of form-filling, so a helpful example of a filled-out form was given in the back of the book...made out to a Thomas Atkins....a full hundred years before the trenches of Passchendale, and the like.

Bit of a Bay Window, what??

CaptainWaggett

If we're now straying into general history books, rather than GW's reading list, those of you who have read my favourite book about WW2 - The People's War, will be sorry to hear thqat the author, Angus Calder, died last week

homeguard

Lung cancer, wasn't it? Well at least his liver held out - and that was always touch and go. But then, being a tutor at the Open University for all those years would be bound to drive a man to drink.
My condolences Captain.
HG

TimR

Homeguard: Thank you for suggesting this beautiful, moving book. I am just finishing it.

One of my favorites for many years is Voice of the Great War, edited by Peter Vansittart. It is similar in structure and theme, but the excerpts are all from well known people from many nations. This is the other side of the same story: the voices that really would be forgotten if not published.

Next is Penfold's suggestion Tommy.

Harleybloke

For Great War reading I'd recommend Lyn MacDonald's books, fine examples of WW1 history.

The Roses of No Mans Land
They Called it Passchendale
To The Last Man

.....You couldn't hear it, if they were shooting at me with howitzers!