smiffy

Sour grapes DB7 ? I think you should look closer to home for ( to use your terminology ) the origins of ref siege mentality ,Ian st John , Tommy Smith , Emlyn hughes , Graham Souness to name some .
Let he that is without sin cast the first stone,Every team in the football league has been guilty at some point of referee abuse and it is time for it to stop .
I am a Mancunian DB7 ,but I can't see that this nullifies the Truth of my post just because "You" don't like it,Where's the famous Scouse sense of humour when you need it,or have you always lived in Shropshire ?If so you can't even be considered a Wooly back

Remember It's only a game

I May be getting older ,but I refuse to grow up

DB7

I've no sour grapes as I expected a Utd win, so my hopes were hardly soaring. In fact if you look back through the thread I've always tipped Utd for the title.

As for yesterday, Masher was stupid - little more. Bennett should have realised this was a Liverpool/Utd game and used some common sense; ie talking to players. This article (Officials should have sent off Ashley Cole - Football News - Telegraph) by Hackett put Bennett under immense pressure and also used unhelpful wording like "massive global television audience will watch these two games", why should these games being live be a factor? Unless it was to send out a signal.

Personally I've seen events like Sunday happen countless times, players feel they are getting no protection (Torres), and get carded when they tell the ref to do his job. Also, would you care to tell me where in the rule book it states that a player may not approach the ref?

I was born in Cheshire. Not that it's any of your business.

smiffy

I really respect your knowledge and your input to the forum DB7,and I have made a point of reading your posts since I joined.
I think this thread brings out the worst in you,and I actually unsubscribed at one point because I thought people on the whole were getting too personal when something happened that they didn't agree with.
The nickname Scousers was derived from a local dish (Scouse) similar to hotpot,which over the years was sometimes unfortunately used to denigrate Liverpudlians, and not only by mancunians I might add. I don't know how accurate I am but the first time I can recall a mancunian being referred to as a "Manc" was on Brookside in the 80's, and it was definitely not a term of endearment
I have never made any kind of personal reference to you ,yet you seem to think It is ok to devalue my input by referring to me as a "Manc" ?
Do you know anybody from Manchester ? I actually have friends in Liverpool (Maghull , Kirkby and Tuebrook ) and their response to Sundays game was more reasonable than yours.
I think in the cold light of day you may want to reread your posts and see that your comments are not reasonable,but are bourne out of a misguided sense of loyalty to your team ,and ignorance of the rules of the game .
Steve Bennett did nothing wrong ,Mashcerano did and if you can't see this you are in denial.
I have watched United since 1966 and seen some acts of hostility and foul play I am not proud of and have never excused, Roy keane being the main culprit,his tackle on Alf inge haaland should have landed him in court, Erics foray into the crowd did , no excuses it was WRONG .
I don't want to know anything about your business DB7 , I was just curious as to whether you supported your local team ? Your Cheshire response hints at no

I May be getting older ,but I refuse to grow up

nandywell

Not to pour too much petrol onto the fire but, I'd love Everton to beat Liverpool next Sunday

DB7

Brigger

Can`t say I agree 100% with you DB7, but still.....
Absolutely Brilliant

batman

Ditto.

"Boom boom a baby .... Banham Zoo .... Banana pants! Hahahaha"

lordtednfs

Enough said.

_______________
Hooked off the line

dremble wedge

The Telegraph produced this which can be read in full here but is summarised below:

The Mascherano time line:

10 minutes: Javier Mascherano lunges in on Paul Scholes and catches the Man United midfielder with a late tackle. Referee Steve Bennett shows the Argentine a yellow card but the player is not happy, and can clearly be seen screaming "f*** off, f*** off" at the official.

11 minutes: Over a minute has passed and Mascherano can still be seen abusing the referee over the yellow card decision, continuously swearing at Bennett. By this time the referee is getting a little tired of the foul-mouthed tirade and responds by putting his fingers to his lips, telling the player to keep quiet.

15 minutes: Still wound up over his booking, Mascherano calls for every United player to be booked if they commit a foul. The player calls for Bennett to caution Brazilian midfielder Anderson for a trip on Steven Gerrard. He pulls an imaginary card from his pocket and waves it at Bennett, who waves him away.

23 minutes: Mascherano gives away a free-kick for obstruction on United winger Ryan Giggs by the touchline. The linesman flags for the foul and once again Mascherano feels hard done by, throwing a strop in disbelief and pointing at the official and then his eyes in an effort to suggest that he must be blind.

36 minutes: By this stage Mascherano has clearly lost his cool and continues to badger Bennett whenever a free-kick is given, no matter which side it is for. He carries on waving imaginary cards, asking why Nemanja Vidic is not cautioned after a foul on Fernando Torres.

38 minutes: Mascherano's team-mates have now clocked that the player is one rant away from a red card and ask him to calm down. However, it falls on deaf ears and he once again hurls abuse at Bennett after the referee awards a free-kick against the Argentine for a foul on Cristiano Ronaldo. By this stage Bennett is purposefully trying to ignore Mascherano.

43 minutes: Enough is enough. Bennett books Torres, who had just been fouled, for back chat and Mascherano cannot help himself. The midfielder runs 20 yards to confront the referee about the booking. Rafa Benitez can be seen shouting from the touch line, telling him to get back, but he doesn't listen. Mascherano is in Bennett's face once again and the red card is shown.

45 minutes: Mascherano will not leave the pitch as he continues to confront Bennett over the dismissal. Eventually, he is dragged down the tunnel by the Liverpool physio after Benitez is forced to hold him still and order him to calm down.

An extract from Law 12 from the FA's website:

The referee has the authority to take disciplinary sanctions, as from the moment he enters the field of play until he leaves the field of play after the final whistle.

A player is cautioned and shown the yellow card if he commits any of the following seven offences (three are relevant in this case):

1. is guilty of unsporting behaviour
2. shows dissent by word or action
3. persistently infringes the Laws of the Game

A player, substitute or substituted player is sent off and shown the red card if he commits any of the following seven offences (two are relevant):

6. uses offensive or insulting or abusive language and/or gestures
7. receives a second caution in the same match.

Offensive/insulting language is an immediate Red. Steve Bennett showed a fair amount of tolerance in Mascherano's case!

And if he was in Old Red Nose's pocket why on earth didn't he send Carragher off for the foul on Rooney in the first 10 mins and award a pen?

DB7

Did you even see the game? The above is pure drivel.

It's strange that The Daily Mail report includes: "And although TV replays suggested that he was merely saying 'what's happening?' in the pivotal incident, it is possible that Bennett showed him his second yellow card for persistent dissent." and The Mirror seemed to catch the same phrase: "The Argentinian is entitled to ask why walking slowly towards an official with a smile on his face while posing the simple question "what's happening?" was enough to be sent off. He was entitled to ask what crime team-mate Fernando Torres had committed to be booked seconds earlier".

This clip shows events in real time. Torres is fouled, gets a card for seeking some protection, then Mascherano enters to ask 'what's happening?'.

Neither player had 'lost their cool' and are not aggressive, both just hold their arms out to ask why.

dremble wedge

Yes I did see the game.

If Mascherano's behaviour after the Torres booking was his only infringement then you would be correct in claiming that he was unfairly dismissed.

But it wasn't was it?

He spent the entire 43 minutes of his appearance haranguing the ref and questioning his decisions. As he ran towards Bennett you can see the ref giving him the chance to back off - he doesn't and receives the second booking he should have got half an hour earlier...

I agree that the Torres booking was unwarranted but Mascherano shouldn't have even been on the pitch by that time. Neither should Carragher.

And if we require evidence of Mascherano's childish behaviour it can found here (apologies for the shocking music track!)

DB7

I do love your grasp of the truth. Even in the clip below he mostly walks by Bennett muttering away, and only once approaches him, and then only for a few seconds.

Now if this rule is applied to every Premiership game next week, I would expect there to be a flurry of red cards. The clip itself has an ironic twist as two are booked for 'dissent', yet this individual isn't.

dremble wedge

It seems we're unlikely to agree on this but every neutral (and I'm a neutral too!) I've spoken to about the Mascherano incident agrees he should have been sent off (and that's not media driven as Andy Gray was dead set against it on Sky and press coverage since has been mixed).

Yes, referees are inconsistent and do not stick to the letter of the law. It happens every week and we all get sick of it but that doesn't mean that when they do apply the laws rigorously they are wrong.

I think Bennett was simply fed up with the sight of Mascherano's cajoling and either Benitez or Gerrard should have been aware of the situation and dealt with it. His additional prancings after receiving the red card look to have gained him another two match ban on top of the one he would have got.

I wouldn't argue with booking Ronaldo either. Just booking him as a rule before kick-off, he's bound to do something untoward.

I read a piece today where John Terry congratulated Clattenberg for his handling of the Chelsea/Arsenal match - he said he told the captains that he would only accept the two of them coming up to him and any players doing so would be booked.

Perhaps this should be the way forward?

DB7

We'll see. Apparently Watford's Eustace today got an extra game ban and £1,500 for not leaving the pitch after a red, so if this isn't an FA witchunt, Mascherano will get the same.

batman

That JT is such a nice chap when it comes to talking to referees.

"Boom boom a baby .... Banham Zoo .... Banana pants! Hahahaha"