batman

I think I may not have put my point of view over clearly re the 5-1 win, Penfold. What I was trying to say is that the Germans seem to have had a new crop of players come through over the past few years, while we are stuck with many of the same old faces. That result for me is second on my list of great England wins (after 1966 of course) and I do not denigrate it in any way. I just found it depressing that the national team seems still to suffer from the same problem it has been suffering from for years ... keep playing the 'old guard' till they virtually grind to a halt and ignore some of the most exciting young players (ie Smith). England were not at full strength but neither were the Germans, and they were still better than us.

Barry Davies I would love to see return. I have not seen Johnny Giles as a pundit, but I remember his great post match interviews when he was a manager.

Bats,

ps - I did say that Richards was good last night

I wish I had claws.

Harbottle

Just awful again and it was not as though the German side was very good, two poor sides I thought. How many times did we pass it backwards and sideways in our own half? We have actually managed to go backwards since giving Sven the boot if that was possible!

batman

I am not sure about the fitness of most of the England players, but how about this team to face Israel. It may not be a great team but it should beat Israel.

I wish I had claws.

Fareham_Bee

Thought they played better than they have in a long time last night, in periods at least.
Lampard took goal well, Richards was excellent, Wright Phillips impressed and I like the look of the left back even if he is a Reading player (they have a history with Brentford LOL). Have heard loads slag off Terry but I thought he did ok.
Am I the only one to spot a certain someone bottling a tackle from a John Terry pass? That caused the ball to go to a German and they went straight up and scored a second goal.
They have to start ditching those living on reputation and start blooding the youngsters now. Ferdinand was an absolute waste of space, and not for the first time.
Also agree, Motson is well past it, never was that good a commentator anyway.

DB7

Crouch is suspended, and David James is as likely to drop a clanger as Robinson.

Obviously Ingurland is taboo up here, so hopefully they'll lose as McLaren is a clot and severely out of his depth. Why do they employ the likes of Keegan (couldn't organise a defence for toffee) and Taylor (Carlton Palmer an international player!)?

batman

I remember a post match interview with Carlton Palmer in which he was asked to justify a terrible England performance during a match in which they had narrowly avoided defeat. His reply was 'I don't care if it was a bad performance, we are not here to entertain people are we.'

Bats.

I wish I had claws.

penfold

Please, please, please, not David James.....

Bit of a Bay Window, what??

Harbottle

Not part of England wanting independence surely?

BristolUK

Gerrard and Lampard both played in every match at Euro 2004. That was the tournament when but for that crazy last minute we would have beaten a very good France (the defeat ultimately gave us a more difficult second round match), we soundly beat a decent Swiss team (think we'd do that now?) had an excellent win against a very good Croatia (think we'd do that now?) and then looked to have the beating of Portugal until Rooney's injury.

You don't nearly beat France, beat Switzerland 3-0, beat Croatia 4-2 and draw against Portugal with 4 of your 11 malfunctioning.

Most people think we had a good tournament (Euro 2004) - ultimately disappointing, again losing only on penalties to the hosts and finalists. But we did it with Gerrard and Lampard in the same team and Rooney and Owen in the same team.

This was followed with impressive qualification for WC 06. With the same players.

Then came Rooney's injury just before the WC itself. He made fleeting appearances in the early games while Owen had to get by with his own fitness problems and different formations team mates etc.

Finally Rooney started a game and in the first couple of minutes, Owen got injured.

If you look at England results when Owen and Rooney came together for 2004 and through the qualifying campaign for WC06 you will see a string of decent or better performances. There hasn't been a good performance from England since then.

That is evidence enough that Rooney and Owen in the same team has made England effective. It's also evidence that Gerrard and Lampard can play together providing there is something they can work with. That 'something' was Owen and Rooney playing together - giving movement and options for Gerrard and Lampard to benefit from.

The results when all four featured prove it.

batman

I only put him in because I know McLaren likes to play safe .... one of the young 'uns should be given a chance.

Bats.

I wish I had claws.

David Brent

A very good point Bats.

There was so much promise from England's 5-1 victory against the "old enemy".
Yet since back then it has been the German's who have come on in leaps and bounds. England have just floundered.
Some are saying that the German side that beat England on Wednesday was a "second string" side. They have plenty more decent players to select from and positives to look forward to.

England seem to be so predictable when selecting players and in their game plans.
The future under McLaren looks very bleak.

Dave.

DB7

Liverpool and Utd tend to have 'club before country' fans with little interest in the national side and St George flags are scorned upon. Probably rooted in imigration and the jeering of players like Beckham and Barnes probably sealed the deal.

David Brent

What happens when an England international is played at Old Trafford or Anfield?

Dave.

DB7

You get a mix from all over the country, although thankfully the "No Surrender" brigade are absent. The atmosphere at OT for England games is pretty good imho and second only to the original Wembley.(I'm not that keen on the new one)

batman

I liked the 'England on Tour' games. Even though the team played mostly rubbish the atmosphere tended to be very good.

Bats.

I wish I had claws.