Chavs Have it Their Way

[clitheroekid]

And I'll bet you a pound to a pich of s**t, they had there pants tucked into their socks.

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by Fareham_Bee Steve, to answer question one. Does it really matter if they meant to kill him or not? They did. To front someone or even to give them a warning off slap is one thing (I don't condone btw) bu;t to go in with enough violence to kill them is completely different. You know when someone has had enough and to carry on is tantamount to meaning to kill someone so far as I am concerned. God, it's harder to argue a point in writing than it is over a pint! LOL.

Until or unless it is made public how he died nobody can really be justified in commenting (except the newspapers of course, but they always disregard the facts anyway). It's possible to kill someone with one, not very hard blow. People can be delicate creatures

Steve

[samkydd]

Originally Posted by Steve Crook Until or unless it is made public how he died nobody can really be justified in commenting (except the newspapers of course, but they always disregard the facts anyway). It's possible to kill someone with one, not very hard blow. People can be delicate creatures Steve

An artist in Southampton was punched by chavs as he walked home from a Tesco Express a year or so ago, and he died. They caught the murderers but the sentences dished out were a complete joke. Whether the intention was to kill him or not is irrelevant, people should be accountable for their actions and had they not attacked him in the first place he'd still be alive today.

An ex-Iraq Vet known to us was attacked recently by knife wielding chavs outside a pub , and they informed him that they intented to "stick" him. He took no time at all in beating the little b*stards up, and then the police arrived and arrested him! He had injured his wrist in the fight and told the police this when they were handcuffing him, so the police deliberately tightened the cuffs on the damaged wrist and physically assaulted the man, and twisted his damaged wrist even more! He was later released without charge, and he took himself off to hospital to get his wrist treated and put in plaster.

The cowardly police officers think they're getting away with it, but no, a Civil Action is being taken against them. The chavs just scuttled off home after the man was arrested and no action was taken against them, and no knives confiscated either.

I think the 21st century police motto is "If in doubt, arrest the one with a bank account!"

After that incident I refuse to help the police and if I ever see one in need of assistance I'll just walk on by.

[Steve Crook]

I was just watching some of The Boys (1962) as I had my lunch.
Dudley Sutton and a gang of other "teenaged ruffians" are accused of stabbing a nightwatchman at a garage and stealing the cash box. In the court the prosecution evidence mounts up against them but then the defence shows it was all circumstantial and it was just because people had seen the boys messing about and assumed that they were out for an evening's trouble. When the robbery and stabbing took place, everyone assumed that it was The Boys that had done it but they just happened to be in the vicinity and attracting a lot of attention. They were really quite nice boys. Hard working, just looking for a bit of (lawful) entertainment on a quiet Thursday.

I love the way that even quite young teenagers wore suits in the 1950s and early 60s. They weren't really teenagers as we know them today. They went straight from being children to being adults

Steve

[samkydd]

Originally Posted by Steve Crook I was just watching some of The Boys (1962) as I had my lunch. Dudley Sutton and a gang of other "teenaged ruffians" are accused of stabbing a nightwatchman at a garage and stealing the cash box............ Steve

Thanks for that Steve , I've tried to remember the name of that film for ages, and when you mentioned Dudley Sutton the penny suddenly dropped. For years I was convinced that someone was in a 50s or 60s black and white film about Derek Bentley, and I'm sure it was the similarity of the story which confused me, and now that you've mentioned him, Dudley Sutton was definitely in it!

[christoph404]

Originally Posted by samkydd An artist in Southampton was punched by chavs as he walked home from a Tesco Express a year or so ago, and he died. They caught the murderers but the sentences dished out were a complete joke. Whether the intention was to kill him or not is irrelevant, people should be accountable for their actions and had they not attacked him in the first place he'd still be alive today. An ex-Iraq Vet known to us was attacked recently by knife wielding chavs outside a pub , and they informed him that they intented to "stick" him. He took no time at all in beating the little b*stards up, and then the police arrived and arrested him! He had injured his wrist in the fight and told the police this when they were handcuffing him, so the police deliberately tightened the cuffs on the damaged wrist and physically assaulted the man, and twisted his damaged wrist even more! He was later released without charge, and he took himself off to hospital to get his wrist treated and put in plaster. The cowardly police officers think they're getting away with it, but no, a Civil Action is being taken against them. The chavs just scuttled off home after the man was arrested and no action was taken against them, and no knives confiscated either. I think the 21st century police motto is "If in doubt, arrest the one with a bank account!" After that incident I refuse to help the police and if I ever see one in need of assistance I'll just walk on by.

I remember reading an article years ago about two plain clothes coppers trying to arrest a guy on a London Underground Platform. In the ensuing scuffle and mayhem a billigerent mob of commuters intervened and helped the guy escape!! even though the police made it clear who they were, the guy they were trying to arrest made such a convincing plea of innocence and persecution to the mob that he managed to elude arrest that day. He was caught later, turned out he was an evil knife weilding serial rapist......so your policy of not helping the Police or getting involved would have probably been helpful that day! I think the Police do a very difficult and thankless job, and yes there are a few bad apples in the barrell who don't have too much common sense but I wouldn't neccesarily tarnish the whole Police Force on account of the actions of a few. I think one of the sad things about modern society and city living is that people are always reluctant to help others in distress or suffering assault or even to simply go and help someone who is lying unconscious in a crowded public place, whether that be a civilain or a police officer is no matter to me, they are human beings the same as us, one of my greatest fears regarding living in London is that one day I might fall down ill on the street and my skeleton will still be there 10 years later.!!

[clitheroekid]

Originally Posted by Steve Crook I was just watching some of The Boys (1962) as I had my lunch.

Me too, and I thought about this thread as the "boys" were outside the cinema and getting an ear bashing from Colin Gordon in the queue. He told them off for being rude and threatened to call the police. What did they do? Complied and went elsewhere without even uttering an expletive and not, as the pants in socks brigade would have done in this day and age, began punching him to the ground and then put the boot in until he was dead.

Mind you, they weren't drunk - and only had enough money between them for a "half of brown ale"

[samkydd]

Originally Posted by christoph404 I think one of the sad things about modern society and city living is that people are always reluctant to help others in distress or suffering assault or even to simply go and help someone who is lying unconscious in a crowded public place........!!

I've always been the first to intervene, to tell people off for bad behaviour or swearing, to stop someone bullying someone else, even for spitting in public or littering. The problem now is that you never know what the other person is on; illegal drugs, medication, alcohol, you don't know if he's got a knife or a gun, or if he'll get on his mobile and call his mates in as reinforcements!

The police don't do themselves any favours by picking on easy targets; people with permanent addresses and bank accounts like me, and if any situation is too difficult for them they'll always walk away! A pack of rampaging chavs or a motorist with a broken sidelight; no contest, they'll always go after the motorist!

Senior Policeman Speaks Out

A senior policeman has lambasted the culture of drinking and youth violence which led to the death of Garry Newlove, a 47-year-old father of three. Mr Newlove was attacked after confronting a gang of more than 15 teenagers who were throwing stones at his car in Warrington, Cheshire. He later died from his injuries.

Speaking after three teenagers were remanded over Mr Newlove's murder, Cheshire Chief Constable Peter Fahy commented:"As a nation I believe we need those who sell the alcohol to young people, those who price strong alcohol so cheaply, those who promote alcohol as glamorous, those parents who turn a blind eye to where their children are, those teenagers who ignore the rights of others to live without intimidation or abuse… to rack their conscience and consider what duty they have to beat the scourge of anti-social behaviour by young people".

[Fareham_Bee]

Originally Posted by Steve Crook Until or unless it is made public how he died nobody can really be justified in commenting (except the newspapers of course, but they always disregard the facts anyway). It's possible to kill someone with one, not very hard blow. People can be delicate creatures Steve

I'll trust you are playing devil's advocate here Steve. You cannot convince me that it would have been a one punch job on all the occasions we have seen of gangs of youths killing adults in the last couple of years. Take the incident on Blackfrairs Bridge where a gang of girls attacked someone and pushed him over the bridge into the Thames!

It doesn't matter if it was one punch or one hundred punches, to punch someone you have the intent to injure them, and if it results in death you have murdered them full stop.

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by Fareham_Bee I'll trust you are playing devil's advocate here Steve. You cannot convince me that it would have been a one punch job on all the occasions we have seen of gangs of youths killing adults in the last couple of years. Take the incident on Blackfrairs Bridge where a gang of girls attacked someone and pushed him over the bridge into the Thames! It doesn't matter if it was one punch or one hundred punches, to punch someone you have the intent to injure them, and if it results in death you have murdered them full stop.

I am playing Devil's advocate and I wouldn't say that the comment I made about one case applies to all cases.

But are you really saying that everyone that punches someone intends to murder them? There is a difference of intent between murder and manslaughter

Steve

[samkydd]

Originally Posted by Steve Crook I am playing Devil's advocate and I wouldn't say that the comment I made about one case applies to all cases. But are you really saying that everyone that punches someone intends to murder them? There is a difference of intent between murder and manslaughter Steve

I remember an incident involving teenage girls attacking someone in London, and it was widely reported that the 15 year old girl gang leader continued to kick the victim in the head repeatedly, even after he'd lost consciousness. She showed no remorse whatsoever!

Now to most people it would appear that she is so mentally unstable that she should never be allowed out in society again! What's the betting that she'll be freed early, and The State will provide for her in her adult life!

This is what is so wrong and frustrates people so much in the UK, and as is often said, criminals get treated better than their victims!

[christoph404]

Originally Posted by samkydd I've always been the first to intervene, to tell people off for bad behaviour or swearing, to stop someone bullying someone else, even for spitting in public or littering. The problem now is that you never know what the other person is on; illegal drugs, medication, alcohol, you don't know if he's got a knife or a gun, or if he'll get on his mobile and call his mates in as reinforcements!

I too would not hesitate to help someone in need, but.....as you point out,you have to carefully weigh up the situation and consider your own safety as well ,so single handedly confronting a very large gang is possibly not a good idea unless you are very confident that you are able to defend yourself form a physical attack from more than one person but I guess if someone has vandalised your property or car then the anger you feel at the time probably precludes that kind of rational thinking and in the next instant you are being kicked to death by a bunch of mindless yobs.It is a sad indication of the society we live in that we have to consider that possibility but recent newspaper stories of innocent people standing up against yobs and paying for it with their lives are becoming all too frequent. In fact todays London Evening Standard newspaper is running another such depressing headline that says exactly that, " Graduate stands up to yobs and pays with his life" Very depressing and disturbing and I would agree with you entirely that some of the punishment handed down to these evil attackers is an absolute travesty and disgrace. There must be a more serious kind of punishment and deterent for this kind of thing .

[Santonix]

Originally Posted by christoph404 Originally Posted by samkydd I've always been the first to intervene, to tell people off for bad behaviour or swearing, to stop someone bullying someone else, even for spitting in public or littering. The problem now is that you never know what the other person is on; illegal drugs, medication, alcohol, you don't know if he's got a knife or a gun, or if he'll get on his mobile and call his mates in as reinforcements! I too would not hesitate to help someone in need, but.....as you point out,you have to carefully weigh up the situation and consider your own safety as well ,so single handedly confronting a very large gang is possibly not a good idea unless you are very confident that you are able to defend yourself form a physical attack from more than one person but I guess if someone has vandalised your property or car then the anger you feel at the time probably precludes that kind of rational thinking and in the next instant you are being kicked to death by a bunch of mindless yobs.It is a sad indication of the society we live in that we have to consider that possibility but recent newspaper stories of innocent people standing up against yobs and paying for it with their lives are becoming all too frequent. In fact todays London Evening Standard newspaper is running another such depressing headline that says exactly that, " Graduate stands up to yobs and pays with his life" Very depressing and disturbing and I would agree with you entirely that some of the punishment handed down to these evil attackers is an absolute travesty and disgrace. There must be a more serious kind of punishment and deterent for this kind of thing .

Hear, hear, well said. My question is When, when? This has gone on for far too long. I am going to write to my M.P. and would urge others to do the same. Remember "There but for the grace of God........"

[Steve Crook]

Originally Posted by christoph404 ... but recent newspaper stories of innocent people standing up against yobs and paying for it with their lives are becoming all too frequent.

I agree, ban all newspapers and we'll all feel much safer

Steve

[Wolfgang]

Nuisance teenagers? Why not just zap them?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...16/noise16.xml