Chavs Have it Their Way

[Wolfgang]

I do not agree with that - surely all deterrents would result in zero crime rates if that were true? There is no other major change in either law enforcment (i.e. fingerprinting/DNA) or social climate (i.e. recession/war) so I think it is reasonable conclusion to draw to; how else do you interpret that correlation? Beatles lyrics??

[Moor Larkin]

Originally Posted by Marky B I no longer support the use of the death penalty,but I still believe that if a person has commited a premeditated murder,then they should go into prison on two legs and come out in a coffin:life should mean life.

The cruelty that well-meaning people are willing to inflict never fails to amaze me. If someone is going to be 'locked up' forever, I judge it far more 'humane' to kill them or allow them the dignity of their own death.

I notice the prison authorities are going to great lengths to keep Ian Huntley alive. Let him do away with himself I would say. I have no wish to kill him but if he no longer wishes to live and I have no intention of letting him go, then I think it decent of me to let him put matters to an end. To inflict a half-century of mindless imprisonment seems far more cruel and inhuman than hanging.

To that extent, the 'vengeful' public should support 'Life' rather than capital punishment. The fact that 'a majority' possibly favours capital punishment maybe reveals they are slightly more compassionate than some might think.

[Fellwanderer]

Originally Posted by Moor Larkin The cruelty that well-meaning people are willing to inflict never fails to amaze me. If someone is going to be 'locked up' forever, I judge it far more 'humane' to kill them or allow them the dignity of their own death. I notice the prison authorities are going to great lengths to keep Ian Huntley alive. Let him do away with himself I would say. I have no wish to kill him but if he no longer wishes to live and I have no intention of letting him go, then I think it decent of me to let him put matters to an end. To inflict a half-century of mindless imprisonment seems far more cruel and inhuman than hanging. To that extent, the 'vengeful' public should support 'Life' rather than capital punishment. The fact that 'a majority' possibly favours capital punishment maybe reveals they are slightly more compassionate than some might think.

I don't believe for one moment that those who support capital punishment are doing it on "compassionate" grounds - I can only assume your tongue was rather firmly in your cheek when you said it.

[samkydd]

Originally Posted by Fellwanderer I don't believe for one moment that those who support capital punishment are doing it on "compassionate" grounds - I can only assume your tongue was rather firmly in your cheek when you said it.

I think the rope industry would benefit!

I don't think anyone has the right to deprive someone of their life, even the state. There are examples however like the 16 year old who was thrown in a clay pit at the weekend, and the thugs who did it prevented his escape by hurling stones at him until he eventually drowned, and to me such inhuman behaviour deserves inhuman punishment! When they're caught they'll hopefully be full of remorse, but no amount of years in prison can wipe the slate clean for the family. Better that they hang in public for all the world to see and save the taxpayer £1500 per week for each to be kept as a prisoner!

[Merton Park]

In reply to Wolfgang

All deterrents will not produce a Zero crime rate, virtually every criminal thinks he is going to get away with it, that's one of the reasons they carry out the crime.

The problem today is, that the deterrents today are so weak, the criminal thinks that if I don't get away with it, the setencing will be so soft it's worth the risk.

[DB7]

This is a quite tragic story and I hope the perpetrator isn't merely charged for crank calls.
BBC NEWS | England | South Yorkshire | Boy charged over hoax fire crash

[Dame Starry]

Originally Posted by DB7 This is a quite tragic story and I hope the perpetrator isn't merely charged for crank calls. BBC NEWS | England | South Yorkshire | Boy charged over hoax fire crash

I wouldn't hold your breath!
He's only 17, technically a 'minor', so they won't want to ruin the rest of his life, will they - even though he's ruined other peoples'?
Oh and sending him to an institution could turn him into even more of a criminal of course.

I've completely lost faith in the British justice system; only the innocent seem to get punished these days.

DS x.

[Chevyman]

Originally Posted by Dame Starry I wouldn't hold your breath! He's only 17, technically a 'minor', so they won't want to ruin the rest of his life, will they - even though he's ruined other peoples'? Oh and sending him to an institution could turn him into even more of a criminal of course. I've completely lost faith in the British justice system; only the innocent seem to get punished these days. DS x.

+1

I watched Panorama last night which featured gun crime. Most of the interviewees were in their early teens or younger.

The programme is on BBC iPlayer until Sunday 6 July:-
BBC iPlayer - Panorama

[earlb]

Pass a law that anyone caught with a knife or gun be charged with the more serious offence 'attempted murder' and the sentence that goes with it. After all, what other reason can there be to have one?

[earlb]

In addition to my posting above, make it a legal requirement and put the onus on the defence to prove they didn't attempt to murder anyone.

[Dame Starry]

Originally Posted by earlb In addition to my posting above, make it a legal requirement and put the onus on the defence to prove they didn't attempt to murder anyone.

Trouble with that is that, the way British law is supposed to work, the prosecution has the responsibility of proving the guilt of the defendent, not the defendent proving his/her innocence.
However, this is now becoming a 'myth' which is resulting in increasing numbers of miscarriages of justice.

It is very difficult to strike a balance when everybody is still supposed to be 'innocent until proven guilty' and entitled to a fair trial.

DS x.

[earlb]

My point is the prosecution will have proved attempted murder by the fact they're holding such weapons, hence proved guilty NOT innocent.

[Dame Starry]

Originally Posted by earlb My point is the prosecution will have proved attempted murder by the fact they're holding such weapons, hence proved guilty NOT innocent.

I know what you were saying - and I'm not saying that I entirely disagree with you - but, you cannot interfere with the process of the law of the land.
This government has interfered so much in order to try and do this, that we now have more and more miscarriages of justice because of the imbalance they have created. Juries no longer seem to understand the phrase "beyond reasonable doubt" and allow their hearts to rule their heads - particularly when a case is what we call 'high profle'.

I don't know what the answer is, earl, I just know that the path has to be trodden very carefully.

Oh, and don't forget that we are running out of prison space; there would be nowhere to put them!

DS x.

[earlb]

I am not saying we should interfere with the process of law - I'm saying "change the law to accomodate".

Originally Posted by Dame Starry we are running out of prison space; there would be nowhere to put them! DS x.

Where I live there are quite a few gravel pits (no,I'm not saying "bury 'em) so give them really hard labour in moving all this gravel and sleep where they work.

[Dame Starry]

Originally Posted by earlb I am not saying we should interfere with the process of law - I'm saying "change the law to accomodate".

I know, but I just can't see it working.
You have to execute the law in the same way for everybody or it becomes unfair and impossible to implement.
The judges have a hard enough time now with the way the process has been changed in the past 10 years or so and, of course, they also have to take into account The Human Rights Act and be Politically Correct at the same time.

As much as many of us would love to see the return of longer and harsher sentences, I can't see it happening in the near future, but I'd like to think that it will one day.

DS x.